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New Zealand Helicopter Crash

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Ex-Ascot
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#21 Post by Ex-Ascot » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:06 am

FD2 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:03 am
And not applying the brakes too hard because sure as hell someone will be standing up!
Absolutely correct FD2. Sometimes on landing PPOs arming up, ADCs putting on swords, ladies putting on hats, chaps jackets. Girls in the galley washing up. For timing purposes I used to plan on using the full runway length. Think I have mentioned this before but at Nairobi the foreign secretary was delivered to the aircraft by a Kenyan Air Force aircraft. The idiot had parked within our wing span which could not be seen from the flight deck with the swept back wings. Marshaller was waving me forward, Air Attache saluting suddenly gave me the stop signal. Principal pax was being served an orange juice. The stewardess caught it in the table cloth.

Those swept back wings were a bugger. Also at Nairobi been marshalled one of our aircraft on a schedule flight took down a lamp post outside the boundary fence. They charged us for it but never fixed it. Had a Capt under training at Brize take out a set of steps just after the guy standing on it saying he was clear jumped off. The training captain in the jump seat, who couldn't see a thing, was the aircraft commander and got done for it.

Bit of a thread drift but for those not familiar the problem is 'wing growth'
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#22 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:04 am

4 engines and two big bolted on wings are the only way to go.

Remember being told that no Captain will be satisfied until the Flt. Eng. says " We've lost number 4, Sir " and he can reply " which side ? "

Nairobi lampost - taxying in at Bombay, relatively new self marshalling system with line up lights straight ahead and stop lights at 90 deg. starboard side. Asked the co-pilot if he could see the stop mark ? Christ, we've passed it. Heavy braking just avoided putting number two engine into the disembarking gate, no damage. First on the flight deck was one of the turban wearing senior ground crew, head wobbling, who said " The lights are on, it wasn't our fault " Maybe not I replied, but there were four of you down there watching, couldn't one of you have given me a stop signal before I nearly hit the terminal. " Not our responsibility " was his answer. Maybe true, but .......... ?

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#23 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:46 pm

I really felt for this crew... at Johannesburg - Oliver Tambo (Jan Smuts) Airport...
BA Oliver Tambo.JPG
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#24 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:51 pm

Apologies for deviating so far from this tragic helicopter accident.

This detailed report reminds one of how bad this tragedy was. One's heart goes out to the kids and the rescuers. It must have been traumatic for all concerned.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/new-zealand/ ... ter-crash/
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#25 Post by FD2 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:22 pm

Sad as it may be GG, there's only so much one can speculate and discuss about what looks like a fairly simple accident. Deviation's welcome.

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#26 Post by Pinky the pilot » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:27 am

Not our responsibility " was his answer.
I wonder how an Indian Court of Law would view that attitude? :-?
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#27 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:56 am

I wonder how an Indian Court of Law would view that attitude?
Doesn't need much imagination to work that one out. Local against foreigner ? ( Racist ? Moi ? )

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#28 Post by Pinky the pilot » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:37 am

You are most likely quite correct Speedy. Er..in the first part of your comment that is. :D

You? Racist?? Heavens to betsy, no!!!! o:-)
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#29 Post by FD2 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:05 pm

It was always a toss up between offending the marshaller and ignoring his directions or pretending to follow them but keeping a sharp lookout! An extra person or two was sometimes needed when being marshalled between two other aircraft which were burning and turning, as intermeshing blades cause such a mess. An S61 was marshalled into a hangar door at Sumburgh once on a frosty dark morning, which produced some shrapnel. :-o A lot easier in a ground taxiing helicopter than a VC10 or 747 though! :D

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#30 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:34 pm

Sometimes it's just not your day. In the year dot one of our Bell 47s - skid u/c for those that don't know - was being marshalled whilst hover taxiing to the avgas pumps at Plymouth Roborough to refuel after a flight, just as it had done every day for weeks whilst based there. The fuel was delivered through a hose secured to a swinging arm, all of which was tied back to a stanchion when not in use. There was no choice but get in close - the installation was designed with light fixed wing in mind, not helicopters.

Unfortunately whoever last used the pumps merely swung the arm back and didn't tie it securely. The rotor downwash caused it to swing into the main rotor blades of the helicopter which neatly chopped through the flexible hose hanging from the arm. ^#(^

Not being marshalled near to hangars is not a good idea - a 2004 video...the guy walking under the rotors just after the engine starts up hasn't much idea either! :-q

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#31 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:03 am

A semi- RUD as Elon would say.

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#32 Post by FD2 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:05 am

Yes - a bit of over-familiarity by the guy under the sailing blades and a little pre-flight inattention on the pilot's behalf to forget he was under that over-hang. And no one to wave frantically at the pilot about the danger they were getting into. "God damn, son of a bitch!" ~X(

Really lucky it stayed upright and only walking wounded!!

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#33 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:22 am

FD2 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:05 am
Yes - a bit of over-familiarity by the guy under the sailing blades and a little pre-flight inattention on the pilot's behalf to forget he was under that over-hang. And no one to wave frantically at the pilot about the danger they were getting into. "God damn, son of a bitch!" ~X(

Really lucky it stayed upright and only walking wounded!!
Why would one think it was Ok to start up so close to a hangar? Negligence writ large and one destroyed R44, and all so unnecessary.
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#34 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:12 am

Reverting back to the NZ accident, this image shows how extensive the frontal damage to the aircraft was. It is amazing anybody survived this accident.

NZH.JPG
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#35 Post by G~Man » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:38 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:12 am
Reverting back to the NZ accident, this image shows how extensive the frontal damage to the aircraft was. It is amazing anybody survived this accident.
Hate to say it, this is typical of "French Machines", I lost good friend in this accident in which 3 died and 3 survived----not difficult to see which seats survived, and this one stayed upright. Image may be disturbing to some:
art1ax.jpg
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#36 Post by CharlieOneSix » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:44 pm

G~Man wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:38 pm
[
Hate to say it, this is typical of "French Machines"....
I do agree with you G-Man. This 2012 video shows just how weak the front of them seems..
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#37 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:52 pm

Chaps what are we saying here? These French aircraft have been certified all over the world, by the FAA too?
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#38 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:25 pm

As Elon sez; "RUD". :))

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#39 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:33 pm

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:25 pm
As Elon sez; "RUD". :))

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#40 Post by FD2 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:41 pm

Zut alors! I shrug and pout in your general direction! It was certainly rapid, unscheduled and a disassembly pp. The 350 ground resonance clip made it look as though the cockpit was held on with some pop rivets. It would be interesting just what sort of crashworthiness expectations the various CAAs look for.

I remember from the dim and distant past that there was an argument with UK CAA about crash resistant fuel tanks - that's something my brain cell will have to check out with the help of Mr Google, as well as the airframe strength issue.

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