TUI - miscalculated flight loads

Message
Author
User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#41 Post by ian16th » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:19 pm

Pinky the pilot wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:04 am
Single-pilot DME homing was not.
In a Bongo Van it was a doddle!! :-bd

I was taught how to to a DME home as opart of my initial MEIFR rating despite it not being part of the syllabus. The Sim bloke (ex RAAF) just thought that I might be interested to learn something that was done back in the old days!

I actually used it twice in earnest in PNG, coming back to Port Moresby from 'the Jungles,' stuck over solid cloud cover.
As far as I know DME was 1st used as a new name for Rebecca Mk VII. I 1st came across it on Hunters that were staging through Istres, c1957.

The Eureka that I had at Istres was the self same Eureka MK II as described in this WWII documentary! But fitted with a mains adapter.

When the RAF Liaison Party moved to Orange, I installed a brand new Eureka MK VII that was many ways better, but when the Iris lot from Watton, came and calibrated it, they wouldn't give me a 'A' Classification for it as there was a bl**dy great shadow caused by Mt. Ventoux!

Any of you homing onto a beacon anywhere in the 3rd world, was probably relying on the old WWII man portable kit!
Cynicism improves with age

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17255
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#42 Post by Boac » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:17 pm

WWII man person portable kit! Careful, now.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 81

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#43 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:45 pm

PtP, rate of decrease of dtg?

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17255
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#44 Post by Boac » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:52 pm

Here's how to do it:

Fly a constant course and note whether the distance indication remains CONSTANT, is INCREASING or is DECREASING.

If the distance indication is CONSTANT then the relative bearing of the station is 90 degrees to the left or right of the aircraft.

If the distance indication is INCREASING then turn 180 degrees to a new heading which will then give a DECREASE in distance indication.

When a heading which gives a DECREASE in distance, note the RATE OF CLOSURE - (e.g., 5 miles in 2 mins. 10 secs.) - see Notes.

Turn 30 degrees LEFT and again note the RATE OF CLOSURE.
Then either:

If the RATE OF CLOSURE has INCREASED then turn another 30 degrees LEFT and note the new RATE OF CLOSURE. Now bracket the course which gives the highest RATE OF CLOSURE in order to find the course on which MAXIMUM RATE OF CLOSURE CAN BE OBTAINED.

or

If the RATE OF CLOSURE has decreased (after Step 6) then turn 60 degrees RIGHT and note the new RATE OF CLOSURE. Now bracket the new course in order to find the course on which MAXIMUM RATE OF CLOSURE can be obtained.

Having determined the course on which to fly, make frequent checks of the RATE OF CLOSURE. If the RATE OF CLOSURE remains CONSTANT maintain the heading until over the beacon - if the RATE OF CLOSURE decreases then make small alterations, e.g., 10 to 15 degrees to the heading in an endeavour to bracket the heading on which a constant RATE OF CLOSURE can be obtained.

If the track made good is not in fact the direct track to the beacon then, when abeam the beacon, i.e., when the distance indication ceases to decrease and then increases, turn 90 degrees to proceed to the beacon - if the turn is not in the correct sense then continue the turn another 180 degrees in the same direction as the original turn.

NOTES

(i) If on any course the rate of closure is such to indicate a closing speed approximately the same as the T.A.S. and provided that as the aircraft proceeds further the rate of closure remains relatively constant, it is advisable to hold the course being flown until either over the top or abeam the D.M.E. beacon.

(ii) If on any course the rate of closure is obviously very slow then do not wait to measure a fixed change in distance but turn 30 degrees left and proceed in accordance with Step 6.

(iii) When the rate of closure is being determined it is desirable to measure a precise distance between two calibration marks on the D.M.E. indicator and measure the time in minutes and seconds, and then compare the times taken for similar distances. If, however, the distance indication appears constant then the course should be held for, say, one minute and note made of the distance covered. When using the X10 scale it should be remembered that if the indicator is watched only for a matter of seconds a rate of closure of one mile per minute will not result in an obvious pointer movement. Pilots should guard against assuming a constant distance indication without observing the indicator for at least one minute.

(iv) During homing procedures, when within 10 miles of the D.M.E. beacon, it is suggested that the course being flown should be continued until either over the top or abeam the D.M.E. beacon. This will assist in orientation prior to commencing descent.

(v) When on a course that originally gave a reasonable rate of closure it is observed that the rate of closure is decreasing, then "bracketing" may be employed to find a more satisfactory course. When bracketing, if a turn of 15 degrees is made and it is in the wrong direction then a turn of at least 30 degrees in the opposite direction should be made. Turns of less than 10 degrees will not result in an obvious change of rate of closure.

(vi) It has been proved theoretically that in drift conditions it is possible to obtain the maximum rate of closure when flying on a course other then the course which gives a direct track towards the D.M.E. beacon. However, this very slight increase in rate of closure is not pronounced and as the aircraft proceeds further towards the beacon the rate of closure will decrease, whereas if the aeroplane is tracking towards the beacon the rate of closure will remain constant.

(vii) It will be found in practice that after the initial 30 degree turn, the problem of orientation becomes simply a matter of turning the aeroplane to a heading which gives a reasonable rate of closure and then bracketing, initially with turns of 15 degrees, to obtain the course which gives maximum rate of closure.

(viii) It is desirable, to assist in orientation, that all turns should be made to the LEFT unless it is apparent that such a turn is in the wrong sense. This procedure will prevent confusion when trying to remember the last direction turned.

The stuff of nightmares at 400kts.................. =))

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 81

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#45 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:05 pm

The other delight that was forced on us was the Gee homing. In practical terms the station entry point was on a Gee lattice line that passed through the station. Ideally the line from SEP to the station was near straight and a simple left/right to align the gates would get you there and dtg from suitable crossing lines.

In training it was never that easy and one Nav leg was on a curved line of increasingly tight radius. It you got inside the curve, easy, bit of left hand down a bit and slipped back to track. If you got outside you could end up in a screaming J**** trying to get back and ultimately you would fail.

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#46 Post by ian16th » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:51 am

Another one!

From African Pilot.

Mis-balanced take-off results in Alitalia A320 tail strike

An Alitalia Airbus A320 aborted its take-off at Milan Malpensa Airport in Italy after suffering a tail strike attributed to mismatched seating of passengers. According to the Italian aviation investigation authority ANSV, the single-aisle airliner pitched up at just 42 knots on its Rome-bound flight. The crew aborted the take-off and no one was injured on what would have been the third and last leg of a Rome-Hamburg-Milan-Rome trip, flown in support of a cruise company.

The ANSV reported that 171 passengers boarded in Hamburg, of which 68 were bound for Milan and 103 for the final destination, Rome. To speed the disembarkation process in Milan, boarding agents seated the Milan-bound passengers in the front of the cabin and all the Rome-bound passengers in the center and rear segments. Also, the Milan passengers’ luggage was loaded in the front cargo hold of the Airbus to facilitate unloading in Milan. So, the Airbus left the gate for the Milan-Rome flight with all its passengers and luggage in the center and aft sections of the airplane.

Because Hamburg was outside the airline’s usual network, weight-and-balance data was not electronically uploaded, but rather was delivered in emailed, printed form. Handlers in Milan mistakenly assumed the data was appropriate for the final leg of the multi-sector trip.
Cynicism improves with age

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17255
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#47 Post by Boac » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:22 pm

Classic - and not the first time! Flight crew more than a bit dozy, I feel. Need to stay wake on multi-leg flights, even on an Airbus. Report to the Pope. 320 Hail Marys and no biscuits. =))

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#48 Post by ian16th » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:18 pm

Would the Flight crew have stayed on the flight deck with the door closed, during the Milan stop?

If either of them looked into the cabin, surely they would have noticed the odd distribution of pax?
Cynicism improves with age

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17255
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: TUI - miscalculated flight loads

#49 Post by Boac » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:24 pm

They are Italian - what do you think? :-)

Post Reply