TUI - miscalculated flight loads

[ricardian]

Airline software super-bug: Flight loads miscalculated because women using 'Miss' were treated as children

A programming error in the software used by UK airline TUI to check-in passengers led to miscalculated flight loads on three flights last July, a potentially serious safety issue.

[Pontius Navigator]

And the rest. I bet the standard weights are way off today.
On one flight we were all weighed for a proper W&B.

Take off weight as just over 700,000lbs.

On another a Belslow had to offload pax as it had a probe fitted and was therefore 290lbs overweight.

[ian16th]

Airline software super-bug: Flight loads miscalculated because women using 'Miss' were treated as children

A programming error in the software used by UK airline TUI to check-in passengers led to miscalculated flight loads on three flights last July, a potentially serious safety issue.

Was this a programming error?

The programmer was probably doing what was specified.

[llondel]

And the rest. I bet the standard weights are way off today.
On one flight we were all weighed for a proper W&B.

Take off weight as just over 700,000lbs.

On another a Belslow had to offload pax as it had a probe fitted and was therefore 290lbs overweight.

I guess the definitive incident for this was the Air Midwest 5481 flight.

I wonder how often they update the average weight tables? FAA tables were unchanged from 1936 until after this incident in 2003 so I wonder how often they update them now?

[PHXPhlyer]

Maybe a new load sheet should be done when X number of seatbelt extenders have been handed out.
Many were the times that we called ops because the flight attendants had run out of extenders.
Even knew of one FA who was busted for using one on her jumpseat.

PP

[Pontius Navigator]

And weight is only half the problem. At least with premium economy you know where much of the weight is.

On one flight, so short haul, we managed to swerve Miss Massive. She was wheeled down the tube in an over size wheelchair. How she got out of the seat behind us I don't know. When she went to the loo she went in sideways, big grin on her face. How she managed I don't know.

[Woody]

Then there’s all the hand baggage , sure that exceeds 1.2 tonnes on majority of flights, is this taken into account?

[Boac]

A notional figure is included in the 'standard weights'

[tango15]

As someone who has completed more load sheets than I care to remember, I've always found the system a bit arbitrary. The only two figures over which there is any accurate control are the aircraft empty weight and the fuel. The check-in scales, if they're accurate - and many aren't - should give a reasonable estimate of total baggage weights, but when it comes to the pax, the whole thing is a joke. Different airlines have different estimated weights, all of which are long out of date. In many British families these days, many of the kids alone must be a lot more than the standard figures.

I remember donkey's years ago, the baggage handlers at LPL came into the office and asked what we should do with a piece of cargo they had found. It was tucked away next to the toilet on a DC-3 which was being used for cargo flights. A check of the label showed that it was destined for Glasgow, so we left it on board, included it on the loadsheet and sent it back to Dublin. We called Aer Lingus to tell them about it and the response was, " Oh, tank God you've found it, we've been looking for that for tree days!" OCS (On Company Service) material (internal mail, timetables, uniforms and many other items) were regularly loaded on DC-3s and Viscounts without paperwork and maybe some figure was plucked out of the air for the loadsheet, or maybe not.

Post 9/11 all that changed and every item which went on board had to be weighed and manifested - or so we thought. One day, a flight arrived from Toulouse. It was a Jet2 sub charter with a French crew. After unloading all the baggage, the handlers found some panels and boxes in the rear hold of the A320. They were large panels and we struggled to get them out of the door. I went to see if there was any paperwork, but there was none. Enquiries of those on the flight deck were met with a Gallic shrug, so we set about the detective work. It turned out that the intended recipient was Thos Cook. They had asked Airbus for the items in question, but had received no notification of when they would arrive. They were in no hurry to receive them, so we took them away and weighed them - about 750 kilos from memory. A report was compiled, but we never heard any more about it. Of course they were not accounted for on the loadsheet and the station manager was ungracious enough to suggest that some sort of incentive might have been involved!

[Pontius Navigator]

I remember early in my career we had to inform the flight deck should we move about the aircraft, but I guess that was when trim was much manual.

Trying to do Astro on the Nimrod was a joke, for as soon as everything was calm and steady one of the knockers would think it a good time to bring around drinks or food.

I wonder how ExSp managed when he was navigating with a load of SLF?

[Boac]

I remember early in my career we had to inform the flight deck should we move about the aircraft, but I guess that was when trim was much manual.

Very important if you are doing Jerusalema.

[AtomKraft]

The main thing is not ensuring the a/c is a little heavy- it's making sure that the loadsheet shows you aren't!

[Ex-Ascot]

Can't find the report but I remember a coin collectors convention (USA?) where everyone had hand baggage full of coins and the aircraft only just got airborne.

Here for the light aircraft if a big fat American Yank turns up he/she is stuck on scales in the charter office and if over the specified weight is charged for two seats.

[llondel]

Can't find the report but I remember a coin collectors convention (USA?) where everyone had hand baggage full of coins and the aircraft only just got airborne.

Here for the light aircraft if a big fat American Yank turns up he/she is stuck on scales in the charter office and if over the specified weight is charged for two seats.

The version I heard for the coin collectors was that the flight crew aborted take-off because of the sluggish acceleration. I assume when you're at the pointy end you have some feel for how fast you ought to be going at various points and if V1 is a bit far down the runway you know something is not right.

[Ex-Ascot]

Thanks llondel I stand corrected. I have always thought that there should be some sort of acceleration check on the take off run.

[Wodrick]

DAN used to stopwatch check to 80kt on the Comets.

[ian16th]

DAN used to stopwatch check to 80kt on the Comets.

How did they decide that they had reached 80kts? Eyeball on analogue ASI?

[Wodrick]

No other way really, the Decca was removed from the 4bs by BEA. Only two or maybe three had Doppler and that era there was not much else in the civil world.

[ian16th]

Wouldn't Doppler give ground speed, not airspeed?

[Wodrick]

yes, It is probably 35 years since I saw a fitted doppler on anything.
Decca too come to think of it.