Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

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TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#2 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:40 pm

Double engine failure? @-)

One of the crew is seriously injured apparently. Actually they both seem to be in a bad way.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... olulu.html

Look at the video in the DM report showing the radar track, they were returning after take off when they turned directly towards the coast (presumably because it became clear they wouldn't make the airfield) and then ditched.
The Transair Boeing 737-200 cargo plane was en route to Maui from Honolulu when The pilots had reported that one engine was down, and they were having trouble with the second and attempting to return to Honolulu, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

At around 1.46am, the pilots lost their second engine and radioed in that they were going down and being forced to land the aircraft in the ocean.
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#3 Post by ian16th » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:51 pm

Why should this affect Boeing shares?

It was almost a flying antique.
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#4 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:53 pm

ian16th wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:51 pm
Why should this affect Boeing shares?

Fragility?

Brittleness?

Apprehensiveness of the market in what is gonna happen next? And thereafter?

The market is usually driven by either Greed or Fear.

Not much Greed for Boeing shares, methinks.

ribrash

Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#5 Post by ribrash » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:57 pm

Good job they watched the Miracle on The Hudson the night before on TV.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#6 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:03 pm

It's a Boeing, it ain't going.

Lets' ditch.

Good outcome.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#7 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:06 pm

Engine problems are the initial focus of an investigation into the ditching off the coast of Honolulu of a Boeing 737-200 freighter shortly after departure on 2 July.

The 737, powered by twin Pratt & Whitney JT8D engines was operated by Hawaiian cargo and charter specialist Transair.

“Transair flight 810, a Boeing 737 cargo aircraft with two people aboard, made an emergency landing in the ocean off the coast of Honolulu, Hawaii, around 1:30am local time on Friday,” the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) says.

“The pilots had reported engine trouble and were attempting to return to Honolulu when they were forced to land the aircraft in the water. According to preliminary information, the US Coast Guard rescued both crew members.”

The FAA adds that it will be investigating the crash along with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

Neither the NTSB nor Transair immediately responded to requests for comment or provided further information.

According to its website, Honolulu-headquartered Transair was founded in 1982 and provides air cargo services throughout the state of Hawaii. It operates a fleet of five 737-200 freighters and five Bombardier SD3-60-300s.

Flight tracking website Flightaware.com shows that the aircraft was bound for Kahului, on the island of Maui. That flight was scheduled to take just over 30min. The aircraft’s flight track shows it circling to the right immediately after departing Honolulu, before ending in the water near the shoreline.

Accirding to Cirium fleets data, the aircraft was owned by Rhoades Aviation and entered service in 1975.
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/tra ... 34.article



Old aircraft, multiple landing and takeoff cycles and short flights between the islands...
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#8 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:04 pm

2,100', then donkey sickness.

Not quite the Cabriolet scenario, methetinks.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#9 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:58 am

It would take some insidious issue like contaminated fuel (water, biocide, ice etc.) a throttle fault, mechanical or electronic, or engine water ingestion etc. to stop both engines. A more obvious event like bird ingestion may have been a factor but unlikely as the crash occurred at night?

As the weather was warm and clear (no tropical rain and ice filled storm into which the aircraft could have flown) I assume we can discount rain and hail ingestion as the cause of this crash.

The pilot reported that the second engine was running hot... implying damage, a maintenance issue, or lubrication failure or even a cooked restart...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transair-f ... s-rescued/

The Coast Guard report of the rescue can be found here. Helicopter at night...

https://content.govdelivery.com/account ... ns/2e69d6a

Whatever the case, it took some skill to ditch successfully in a 5 foot swell in the pre-dawn dark. The communicating pilot sounded very professional during the ATC exchanges in a very stressful situation.
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#10 Post by llondel » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:03 am

Perhaps someone screwed up an oil change?

Of course, we can't properly speculate until someone comes up with the METAR.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#11 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:05 am

llondel wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:03 am
Perhaps someone screwed up an oil change?

Of course, we can't properly speculate until someone comes up with the METAR.
I was just about to provide that... =))

All relevant METAR's can be found here... ;)))

http://avherald.com/h?article=4e9bbe04&opt=0

METAR.JPG
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#12 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:38 am

Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea


That's a "water landing", not a crash.

Landing on water. Nice. A bit like a wet runway, but wider and wetter and deeper wetter than the Wet Wet Wet METAR thingy tells you about. Otherwise: nice.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#13 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:40 am

Undried Plum wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:38 am
Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea


That's a "water landing", not a crash.

Landing on water. Nice.
Not so nice when "landing" results in serious injuries... One man's crash is another's water "landing" I guess. ;)))


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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#14 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:50 am

120 kts touchdown. Then egress through plug doors tae git tae fock oot and then a rough ride on a very hard high tensile steel wire to a clattering thing and dumped onto my arse onto marine-grade plywood boards inboard by a grinning ****q who thinks he deserves a fukkn medal for catching a sea-trout like me.

Not my idea of fun.

I think I'd have had hard words to say to the grubbers and spanner-twiddlers afterwards. Being a Scotsman, I think knuckles might be involved unless of some very smooth talking in my direction.

Those engines failed for a reason.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#15 Post by llondel » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:49 am

I would have thought with a water landing you have to be as level as possible - flare and drag the tail to bring the speed down and reduce the adverse effects of a wing or engine digging in and causing excess drag on one side with resulting cartwheel or spin.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#16 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:17 am

Definitely want to be level.
120 KT is not that fast considering no gear out and no telling how much flaps.
VSI would be nice to know.
Having a little excess speed would be preferable to stalling it in. RA would not be usable as without gear out it would display a negative number while still above the surface.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#17 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:36 am

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:17 am
Definitely want to be level.
120 KT is not that fast considering no gear out and no telling how much flaps.
VSI would be nice to know.
Having a little excess speed would be preferable to stalling it in. RA would not be usable as without gear out it would display a negative number while still above the surface.

PP
All that and to land across the prevailing movement of the waves, preferably timing your landing to land the nose along a crest at 90 degrees to the sea movement.

All well and good in theory. Almost impossible to do in the dark with a 5 foot sea movement (good for surfers). I suspect that part of the aircraft dug in and the ensuing rapid deceleration, plus, possibly the movement of cargo caused the crews' grievous injuries and the rapid breakup of the hull. One of the crew was found clinging to the still floating tail, the other lying on floating cargo. It is clear that they came to a violent stop. That they survived at all is testament to skill and good luck.
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#18 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:05 am

During the night I received a note from a sage Captain with many thousands of hours on the 737 generally and this model in particular. He is well known to many here and wrote the following regarding the B737-200MA with refence to this accident.
Golden rule for jet jockeys:

Double trouble at low level - fuel contamination. Usually water.

Double trouble at high level - fuel filter icing (H20 again)

Double trouble on climb - **** compressor wash done just before flight. I had this once in the 400 srs (CFM donkation).

Fuel contamination low level is only apparent at high engine power. This is usually just after take off and in 4th segment (enroute climb). One can taxi around all day with 50% water or wombat piss in the tanks. Jet engines can take a lot of *****, abuse and mishandling. Just like what we cop from our wives.

The above is in nutshellery form. I can expand further on each if you wanna.
All very useful lest we go down the proverbial wombat hole like they often do at TOP.
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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#19 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:19 am

A good example of how a heavy two engined aircraft that is not absolutely level will react when it hits the almost perfectly flat sea at a ground (water?) speed north of 110 knots. The Captain in this case can be forgiven as he was fighting a bunch of insane Mullah maddened savages as he desperately tried to land after having been hijacked and forced to fly to Australia despite the fact that he had not nearly enough fuel to do so. The actual footage of the "landing" (i.e. crash) was taken by a South African tourist on the beach.

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Re: Boeing cargo jet crashes into the sea.

#20 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:11 pm

The rescue of the two men was a close run thing it seems.
On Jul 3rd 2021 Coast Guard men involved in the rescue reported the debris field of the aircraft was about 1.25nm long. They discovered both pilots, one (58) was standing at the tail of the aircraft waving at the helicopter, the other clung to a cargo net around the aircraft. When the aircraft sank, the pilot on the tail momentarily disappeared, they got sight of him again while he was struggling to stay afloat and lifted him into the helicopter at 02:58L. The pilot was exhausted and unable to talk, but was conscious. The other pilot (50) was rescued by a boat at 02:51L, the pilot had head injuries and needed to be cleaned from aircraft fuel before he walked off the boat on his own and was received by medical staff who took him to the hospital.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4e9bbe04&opt=0
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