Para Drop Aircraft Crash

[TheGreenGoblin]

Anyone know what performance category this a/c operates on on the UK register - if, indeed, it is on it?

It is cerified in the EU and I know it is operated in South Africa by Solenta, as a cargo workhorse, under regs. equivalant to US FAR 23 (either Amendment 34/ Amendment 41).

Citywing used to operate them here in the UK.

Not without incident mind.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 5-2013.pdf

Citywing were a rather "unusual" airline shall we say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citywing

The first Citywing-branded flight took off on 2 January 2013. The operation often attracted controversy being described as a 'virtual airline' with no Air Operator's Certificate, no appointed Aviation Safety Officer and no Safety Department.

Go figure...

L410, Isle of Man, 2017 (On 23 February 2017, a Czech-operated Let-410 departed from Isle of Man into deteriorating weather conditions and when unable to land at its destination returned and landed with a crosswind component approximately twice the certified limit. The local Regulatory Agency instructed ATC to order the aircraft to immediately stop rather than attempt to taxi and the carrier’s permit to operate between the Isle of Man and the UK was subsequently withdrawn. The Investigation concluded that the context for the event was a long history of inadequate operational safety standards associated with its remote provision of flights for a Ticket Seller.)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _03-18.pdf

When the aircraft landed at IOM the wind was gusting to 63 kt and creating a maximum crosswind component of 40 kt. After touchdown, nearby witnesses saw the right mainwheel
lift off the ground and they estimated the left wingtip rolled to within approximately one metre of the runway surface before the landing was successfully completed.

The relevant maximum demonstrated crosswind component for the Let L-410 is 19.4 kt and this was included in the ‘Performance Limitations’ section of the Airplane Flight Manual (AFM)
but the aircraft operator did not apply a limiting component of crosswind to its operations. The only wind limit that was applied and used by the crew was 45 kt for ground operation.

[Pontius Navigator]

With a ground limit of 45 kts and a wind speed of 63, there is a clue there.

[Boac]

Anyone know if this a/c is able to climb away from engine failure at V1 or is it like the Aztec/Chieftain which need 'blue-line speed?

[TheGreenGoblin]

Anyone know if this a/c is able to climb away from engine failure at V1 or is it like the Aztec/Chieftain which need 'blue-line speed?

[Boac]

Unless I am misreading that table (and it does not show Vr), an engine failure soon after take-off would be 'land somewhere ahead' unless you have 108kts, not 'turn back'?

[TheGreenGoblin]

Unless I am misreading that table (and it does not show Vr), an engine failure soon after take-off would be 'land somewhere ahead' unless you have 108kts, not 'turn back'?

+1

[TheGreenGoblin]

Unless I am misreading that table (and it does not show Vr), an engine failure soon after take-off would be 'land somewhere ahead' unless you have 108kts, not 'turn back'?

[Boac]

It looks, then, from THIS accident, that the pilots were doing 'the right thing' and not trying to return.

"At a height of 70 metres, the pilots reported that their left engine had failed and attempted an emergency landing near the city of Menzelinsk, trying to turn the plane leftward to avoid an inhabited area, the regional governor said.

But the aircraft's wing hit a Gazelle vehicle as the plane landed and it overturned, Tatarstan's governor, Rustam Minnikhanov, said."

[TheGreenGoblin]

The L210 can't have a worse engine out climb rate than the Grumman Cougar. On an ISA day at MTOW it had a climb rate of -+200 feet per minute , even if the correct procedures were followed. On most days it was on the slippery slope downwards at that weight!

I imagine the Aztec's single engine performance was a tad better?

Perhaps not...

https://www.pilotweb.aero/aircraft/flig ... st-6314792

[TheGreenGoblin]

TGG, and the hours flown and the operating environment. The GAF F104 widow maker was famed for its accidents but I think on the quiet the Harrier and Lightning were not the safest aircraft either.

Standing by for Boac.

The F-104 Starfighter. They always said the cheapest way to obtain one was to buy a field in Germany and just wait. How can a thing with two foot long wings fly?

Anybody fancy going halves on a Starfighter?

A pristine example of one of the hottest rides of the Cold War is up for sale for what seems to be a bargain price and the bonus is that there’s room for two. An Arizona company is selling an airworthy Lockheed CF-104D fighter/interceptor for $850,000, about the same price as an SR22, and it comes with a barn and hangar full of spare parts including two engines, 150 main gear tires, brakes, control surfaces canopies and parachutes. Platinum Fighter Sales is handling the sale and says the Mach 2 two-seat training version of the Starfighter has 2500 total hours and is in “excellent condition.”

The current owner of the plane, Fresh Fuel Inc., of Mesa, Arizona, bought it in 1996 and it last flew in 2008. It has been maintained in airworthy condition since. It is registered as an experimental exhibition aircraft and has a coveted “pre-moratorium” status that allows it to be flown “on condition” with a yearly inspection. That flexibility is not available anymore. The plane was one of 38 training aircraft built by Lockheed for the Royal Canadian Air Force. Operational CF-104s were built in Canada by Canadair. Canada sold it to Norway in 1973 and Norway retired it in 1982. It went through a series of civilian owners (including EAA in 1992) but has been in Mesa for 22 years.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/fly ... -for-sale/

[Boac]

Having had a back-seat ride in a Dutch 104 - exciting it was, but I think I'll decline the offer, thanks.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Having had a back-seat ride in a Dutch 104 - exciting it was, but I think I'll decline the offer, thanks.

An ex fast jet fundi like you would be the perfect partner Boac...

Seriously though, it is significant that the aircraft has not been flown much in the last few years, despite the fact that is is perfectly airworthy. I suspect that wiser heads than mine have admitted that the jet was a dangerous beast when in service and is likely to be ultimately lethal in civilian hands...

Edited to say that I suddenly realised that you may not know the SA term "fundi"...

fundi
noun (S. African) expert, authority, specialist, professional, master, pro (informal), ace (informal), genius, guru, pundit, buff (informal), maestro, virtuoso, boffin (Brit. informal), hotshot (informal), past master, dab hand (Brit. informal), wonk (informal), maven (U.S.)

[Boac]

Know it? I am one. (Wife speaks kitchen Swahili..........................)

[John Hill]

What were the engines on this unfortunate L-410? P&W, Walther or GE?

[PHXPhlyer]

I think most if not all had Walters.
A Pratt clone I believe.

PP

[John Hill]

I think most if not all had Walters.
A Pratt clone I believe.

PP

Thanks, I did not know and am not entirely convinced that the Walter turbo prop is a clone of any Pratt (PT6?).

[Woody]

Maybe TGG can recognise the bit of ZA the parachutists are trying to hit and Ex- A can give his views on people who voluntarily leave aircraft whilst they are still in the air

[TheGreenGoblin]

Maybe TGG can recognise the bit of ZA the parachutists are trying to hit and Ex- A can give his views on people who voluntarily leave aircraft whilst they are still in the air

Tis Mossel Bay, home to the famous poster and helicopter gunship pilot Cassie Nel, aka Gunship, who was evicted from TOP for daring to post in Afrikaans. He went on to set up the FlyAfrica website which I sponsored for a while. Sadly it is now defunct. Mr Nel heads up a flying school at Mossel Bay airport now. Mr Nel is a very nice chap who has led an adventurous life!

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=l5b ... ip&f=false

InitialIy I thought it might have been Plettenberg Bay but it is Mossel Bay.

[PHXPhlyer]

Video shows plane narrowly miss skydivers in South Africa
No one was hurt in the harrowing incident. The plane regained control and landed safely.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/vide ... a-n1283332

Terrifying video out of Mossel Bay, South Africa, shows a plane narrowly miss skydivers after the pilot lost control and began to spiral downward.

"It is a fascinating and unusual thing to see your jump aircraft below you in freefall," wrote Bernard Janse van Rensburg, who released the jump video on ViralHog earlier this week "for general information and educational purposes to the aviation community."

The footage from last month shows Janse van Rensburg jump from the plane before eight other skydivers. He wrote that he had felt the Beechcraft King Air "'slip' once and then twice."

"I knew something was wrong and decided to let go of the now banking aircraft," Janse van Rensburg wrote. But his fellow divers were "fully focused on achieving correct positioning and exit timing" and the skydivers ended up "missing the tell-tale signs of an imminent stall."

The video shows the plane spin out of control and then descend dangerously close to the divers.

"The moment was surreal and I could not believe what I was seeing. Everything happened in slow-motion and I remember thinking 'am I really seeing the plane spinning nose down next to us?' After the spin, the aircraft started to veer underneath us but luckily did not make contact," Janse van Rensburg wrote.

Five divers were still inside the plane while it spiraled. The pilot gained control and was able to safely land the plane, Janse van Rensburg said.

The divers also all made it safely to the ground.

Janse van Rensburg said the incident was reported to South African aerial safety agencies.

"The next day the jump team made adjustments to their exit procedure following discussion with the pilot and no further incidents or near-incidents were experienced," he wrote.

PP

[Ex-Ascot]

I think that I posted earlier on this thread that the problem is them all wanting to hang onto the outside of the aircraft so that they jump together and get into formation as soon as possible to get as many formations they can in free fall. It makes for a very unstable situation. Many jump pilots are hours building and do not have the experience to cope with this.

Don't understand why he flaps down in that clip.