First officer's check flight not completed, so aircraft had to turn around

[TheGreenGoblin]

Could this flight not have morphed into a check flight en route?

A Virgin Atlantic aircraft was forced to turn back less than an hour into a flight to New York on Monday, after one of its pilots was found to not have completed their training.

In what the airline is calling a “rostering error”, flight VS3 turned around 40 minutes into the Heathrow to New York flight after the issue was spotted while flying over Ireland.

As part of Virgin Atlantic’s policy, pilots need to have completed a “final assessment flight”, which this officer had reportedly not yet taken.

Exasperated passengers aboard the Airbus A330 were then forced to wait on the tarmac at Heathrow while a qualified replacement was found - eventually arriving into New York nearly three hours later than scheduled.

“You could have cut the tension in the cockpit with a knife,” a source told The Sun. “The plane got as far as Ireland and then they found out the first officer was still in training.

A Virgin spokesperson told The Independent that both pilots were “fully licensed and qualified” and that flight safety was not compromised.

“Due to a rostering error, flight VS3 from London Heathrow to New York-JFK returned to Heathrow on Monday 2 May shortly after take-off,” the spokesperson confirmed.

“The qualified first officer, who was flying alongside an experienced captain, was replaced with a new pilot to ensure full compliance with Virgin Atlantic’s training protocols, which exceed industry standards.

“We apologise for any inconvenience caused to our customers who arrived two hours 40 minutes later than scheduled as a result of the crew change.”

A CAA spokesperson said: “Virgin Atlantic have made us aware of the incident. Both pilots were suitably licensed and qualified to undertake the flight.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 71994.html

[Boac]

Not in my opinion. The F/O was not 'qualified' so I think the last para is rubbish! As I understand it, until 'Final Line Check a pilot can only operate with a Training Captain.

Doesn't say much for the 'CRM' aspects of the cockpit, does it? Any '"Hi, we haven't met - how long have you been with us?"

I would have passed the problem back to OPS with an offer of an instant upgrade for me to TC paygrade

I had an 'amusing' episode with Astraeus where an non-ETOPS a/c was to be flown across the Atlantic, requiring a dead-heading crew for the return for duty hours on the extended routing. The DH crew were to set up the a/c for me - ie check it, load the route, fuel, pax etc, while I was being called off Standby. My planned F/O (a management pilot) had to go home to collect his license which he had not brought in for the office day, and was to be late for departure.

I elected to finish the a/c prep and departure using the DH F/O (strictly illegal! and as it happened non-ETOPS qual, not that that mattered), having the rostered 'F/O' rush up the steps, sit in Row 1 and we closed door and start up to meet our rapidly approaching slot expiry, and off we went. I was completely sanguine about the whole thing, since the DH Captain was a TC AND the ETOPS Training Manager for the fleet (More later* - he was Australian.... what could possibly go wrong....? ) and congratulating myself on the adaptive, flexible, intelligent and constructive approach I had adopted (chocolate nose no doubt in the post). We had fully cockpit briefed and planned to hand over after TOC and getting Atlantic clearance. The only snag I could see was if we speared into a smoking hole with the 'wrong' F/O in the wreckage and I didn't reckon I would have been overly troubled .........

F/O (as PM) dutifully filling in the PLOG boxes as we went. TOC and clearance obtained, and RHS swap 'happens'. First chance to take a breath and review things. Put map onto longest scale and my heart sank. The route headed straight out into the Atlantic. ETOPS. Check paperwork - yes, PLOG waypoints are ETOPS. 'New' F/O and I have a moment or two to reflect. Luckily I had known him for several years, and we debated the pro's and cons. Well out of contact with OPS by now. The a/c was definitely 'non-ETOPS', having a questionable oil consumption on No2.

Decision taken to continue and run a how-goes-it oil graph for No2. If it became a problem, divert to ETOPS div. Flight continued uneventfully and we repaired to our hotel with Deputy God TC now buying most of the booze.

Return flight with DH crew over, I approached my Fleet ETOPS manager (also, sadly, another Aussie JIGJAM), who had an apoplexy/rant at me for what I had done because "there is no way I can file your paperwork for the trip". Rant continued and all things dire were to happen to me, when I stopped him in his tracks with "As ETOPS manager, you do realise the flight plan and F/O rostering was a joke, don't you" "Your OPS, not mine" "What should I have done - come home? I'm sure that would have been popular with the company". "Have you actually noticed the flight was safely and efficiently operated? I heard no more of it.

* Story 2 - the Aussie 'JIGJAM' TC. A year later, he was conducting an ETOPS annual check on me - normal route, to Newfi. All was going 'swimmingly' (pun intended) until about 2/3 across when I asked him for advice on how to handle an engine fail out of destination in terms of flight path. Rather sneeringly, he pointed out to this POM that if I knew and understood the ICAO circling for that field , that would be a start. I paused for dramatic effect and asked him what the words 'TERPS on the chart meant.......... I passed.

[Ex-Ascot]

Boac:

I would have passed the problem back to OPS with an offer of an instant upgrade for me to TC paygrade

That was exactly what I thought the best solution would have been. Cheaper than a turn back.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Not in my opinion. The F/O was not 'qualified' so I think the last para is rubbish! As I understand it, until 'Final Line Check a pilot can only operate with a Training Captain.

Doesn't say much for the 'CRM' aspects of the cockpit, does it? Any '"Hi, we haven't met - how long have you been with us?"

I would have passed the problem back to OPS with an offer of an instant upgrade for me to TC paygrade

Chutzpah, lateral thinking and good sense uber alles!



As you imply, all the mistakes had already been made back at base and continued though through the lack of curiosity in the cockpit.

Might have been the basis for "it is easier to ask for forgiveness", but that I guess might be career ending, although as the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám is purported to say...

"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it."

"TERPS"



One question from the ignorant, how does TERPS the define minimum SECTOR altitude, is it the standard definition thereof? How does pans-ops fit into all this?

Yours terminally confused!

TGG

[Boac]

I'll have to pass on those questions and leave it to our resident aviation experts - BM?

Maybe not, I think reddo when she has time?

In the days as described there was still ICAO/Pans-ops and Terps being markedly different. Now I think they have 'harmonised'.

[TheGreenGoblin]

I'll have to pass on those questions and leave it to our resident aviation experts - BM?

Maybe not, I think reddo when she has time?

In the days as described there was still ICAO/Pans-ops and Terps being markedly different. Now I think they have 'harmonised'.

I must admit it is as clear as mud to me.

[PHXPhlyer]

JIGJAM?

PP

[TheGreenGoblin]

JIGJAM?

PP

FIGJAM surely!

Speak to us maestro!

[Boac]

"Jesus I'm good, just ask me" (Bruce)

[PHXPhlyer]

"Jesus I'm good, just ask me" (Bruce)

So "JIGJAM"?

PP

[TheGreenGoblin]

"Jesus I'm good, just ask me" (Bruce)

So "JIGJAM"?

PP

Bruce Almighty Mate!

[Undried Plum]

Was the skipper ever so slightly pissed off about being passed-over for promotion to being Training Captain?

Just askin'.

[Ex-Ascot]

I wouldn't have been happy about being a TC. Too much time in the 'stimulator'.

[Boac]

For many, the lack of long-haul 'red-eye' and time zone shifts after a few years of flying come as a relief (and the dosh/pension!)

[Ex-Ascot]

For many, the lack of long-haul 'red-eye' and time zone shifts after a few years of flying come as a relief (and the dosh/pension!)

Yes a bit difficult to get jet lag in a simulator. However the A300-600 one we used was owned by Lufthansa in Berlin. Their pilots got all the day slots we got all the night ones. Understandable but a real pain. Most of us were way over the limit to fly. One ex-jaguar pilot had to ask to have the simulator stopped twice so he could throw up. His TC was the chief pilot.

[Boac]

One ex-jaguar pilot had to ask to have the simulator stopped twice so he could throw up.

A well-known problem thought to have originated in the Irish Bar - mind you - an ex- pussy-cat driver - says it all....

[Rwy in Sight]

For many, the lack of long-haul 'red-eye' and time zone shifts after a few years of flying come as a relief (and the dosh/pension!)

Most of us were way over the limit to fly. One ex-jaguar pilot had to ask to have the simulator stopped twice so he could throw up. His TC was the chief pilot.

And having to cope with a simulator that keeps breaking down is not easy I guess

[Ex-Ascot]

One ex-jaguar pilot had to ask to have the simulator stopped twice so he could throw up.

A well-known problem thought to have originated in the Irish Bar - mind you - an ex- pussy-cat driver - says it all....

Yes indeed Boac. When on ground school in Luton we had a curry party one night. I arrived in the HQ car park the same time as him the following morning. He disappeared into the bushes to throw uo.

Actually simulator serviceability with the A300-600 was pretty good. The VC10 was not good.