Ops-Normal.org

Sorry to learn of that PN....

Presumably normal in that company for the single pilot to fly in the left seat - which should have given him an even better view of the departing aircraft. The right seat would have had a much poorer view, if at all. The departing aircraft should also have had a good view of the inbound. Human factors? Accidents will happen. I guess they rely on position reports from other aircraft unless there's an airfield in the vicinity.

EA - at what time in the clip do you 'see' another helo?

FD - I believe the 130 is operated from the LHS. Amazing that there are 3 seats up front.

At 28 secs., the visibility above the PIC is clear (Window), assuming that visibility is apparent on the RHS also, one assumes at the very least, departing is potentially able to sight the incoming through the RHS roof window??....

I'm trying to understand how the PAX was apparently far more situationally aware than the PIC was, such that he was observing conflicting traffic approaching, enough to point to it, then to 'tap a shoulder'....at first glance the layman in the middle rear seat seems rather more situationally aware,...no doubt investigation will reveal the passengers aeronautical experience, why he pointed to conflicting traffic so early, why he felt it necessary to 'tap' the PIC at the last minute.

Perhaps he was an airman and understood the radio calls and was connected to a headset, thus knowing where to look at the time of a departure transmission?

Perhaps he was not an airman, and the radio calls were self apparent, such that he knew where to look...?... and sighted traffic from there.... who knows how the ATSB will report it. I do suspect the final report will not be released until the general public have long forgotten this nasty crash, and won't know where to find it....suspect the local media will be 'selective' in what they do report knowing very well 0.005% will ever dig out out the report and digest it in full....

Always has it been so....

I'm afraid with my ageing eyes I cannot see a helo.

Boac wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:08 pm

I'm afraid with my ageing eyes I cannot see a helo.

Me neither but the result of the collision in the cabin is fairly hair-raising...

The shoulder tapping passenger saw the other aircraft below them!

Yes, the shoulder tapping passenger was well aware,....question is....why did a middle seat rear passenger be aware of the clear and impending danger...and seemingly not the pilot?

EA01 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:09 pm

Yes, the shoulder tapping passenger was well aware,....question is....why did a middle seat rear passenger be aware of the clear and impending danger...and seemingly not the pilot?

Probably because he was situationally unaware of the other aircraft and unsighted from his vantage point.

And.....oposedly, how did the chief pilot depart seemingly not know he was flying into the 'firing line'

EA01 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:16 pm

And.....oposedly, how did the chief pilot depart seemingly not know he was flying into the 'firing line'

Lack of coherent procedures perhaps, or perhaps one or both pilots ignored existing procedures with fatal consequences.

Man is mortal, mistakes are made, fate is the hunter...

I believe that C16 might have known the pilot of the helicopter in this tragic case where the fixed wing plot shouldn't have been where he was..

Boac wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:35 am

EA - at what time in the clip do you 'see' another helo?

FD - I believe the 130 is operated from the LHS. Amazing that there are 3 seats up front.

I had a few flights in an Astar 350 in tour operations over The Grand Canyon with the (I believe) first commercial operator of the 350 in the US. 1989.
Their aircraft did indeed have a pilot seat and two pax seats up front with a four across bench seat aft.
Even in the inboard aft seat the view was fine.

PP

PHXPhlyer wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:50 pm

Their aircraft did indeed have a pilot seat and two pax seats up front with a four across bench seat aft.
Even in the inboard aft seat the view was fine.

Standard in the tour industry for Astars---it is called the "Geneva Package", where the controls on the left side are permanent and the right side are removable and a bench seat is then put in the front right to allow for 6 passengers and one pilot.

I flew this configuration for 7 years in Hawaii.

Incidentally the 130 can have 3 seats up front in addition to the pilot.

TheGreenAnger wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:44 pm

Man is mortal, mistakes are made, fate is the hunter...

I believe that C16 might have known the pilot of the helicopter in this tragic case where the fixed wing plot shouldn't have been where he was..

Yes, the helicopter was one of ours. Hugh Lovett was the pilot. May 1977. I was tasked with doing the joyriding at Biggin that weekend but KLM wanted to keep me in Amsterdam so Hugh was detailed to do it. It worried the hell out of my parents and ex-wife who all knew I should have been there. Hugh was ex-Army so not inexperienced. From memory he did clearing hover turns on each sortie of that task apart from the accident one.....
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/17912