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Yeti Airlines Crash

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#21 Post by Boac » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:56 am

interlinked to prevent this.
Interlinks fail. Crew can fail to action warnings correctly. QV Murphy......

I suspect, however, this is not a 'flap' issue.

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#22 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:33 am

Which bit of "almost" is unclear?

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#23 Post by CharlieOneSix » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:58 am

I suppose it is a possibility that having flown the approach at flap 15 the Captain called for flap 30 late in the approach and the 100 hour F/O selected flaps up instead?
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#24 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:59 pm

Yep, that's one option.
The pilot's notes appear to call for 30 flaps "when landing assured", so maybe they were never put to full.
They've recovered the black box, reportedly, so we should get a clear answer eventually.

One always wonders about the Authority Gradient with Asian crews, especially with that diversity in experience, etc.

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#25 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:47 pm

Yep Fox my thoughts. But who was operating? They were going back to Kathmandu which is a very complicated approach.
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#26 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:56 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:58 am
I suppose it is a possibility that having flown the approach at flap 15 the Captain called for flap 30 late in the approach and the 100 hour F/O selected flaps up instead?
That's my guess, but I guess, as we are all apt to say, let's wait for the report.
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#27 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:02 pm

Passenger filmed the crash... pretty disturbing...

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#28 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:26 pm

How the hell can someone select flaps up instead of down?
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#29 Post by prospector » Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:03 pm


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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#30 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:04 pm

The usual reasons for people doing this (and similar cock-ups), in my experience are:

(1) They were expecting a Flaps Up command, so didn't listen past the word "Flaps.." and selected up.
This usually happens because the crew member wanted to go around.
(2) At this point in the approach in their first or high-time aircraft, the flaps would already be down, so Up was the only selection possible.
They have reverted to type due to stress or inattention (highly likely the former in this case)
(3) They wanted to go around, but had the Flap lever in hand not the throttles because they were not Pilot Handling, so they shoved that forward.

They may not have consciously selected Flaps Up, but Flaps one stage less. So, if the Flaps were at 15 not the 30 the person expected/was used to at this stage, Up would have been selected, where the person may have intended a 30 to 15 selection.

That's from my flight sim and flight instructing experience.

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#31 Post by John Hill » Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:36 pm

TheGreenAnger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:02 pm
Passenger filmed the crash... pretty disturbing...
What are the chances of this being genuine?
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#32 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:27 pm

I'd say very high.
At 0:38 is definitely the Pokhara football stadium
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pokha ... 83.9914531
Then the last bit of visible ground is a twisty bit of road just east of the smaller local airport ( Ram Bazar Rd, 28.202094, 83.986198 )
The aircraft seems to be on quite an offset flightpath requiring a sharp left turn just beyond 1 mile finals. This would explain 30 Flap not being selected yet.
It looks to be an accelerated stall from overcooking the turn, either making it from too big an offset, too late a turn, or too slow (or, as ever, any or all of the above).
The aircraft then ends up in the ravine of the Seti Gandaki River, just beyond the centreline.

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#33 Post by Boac » Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:40 pm

There are strongly conflicting views on the validity of the video. However, apart from showing a flap extended it does not prove anything about this accident.

Mrs ex-A (post 17) wins my prize for the best post on this thread.

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#34 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:45 pm

More on the video
at 0:30 is the Nahar monument (28.214445, 84.002933).

So, it look like they were flying a tight left hand circuit to land. There is a very high ridge to the NW, which they would need to fly belly up to. The left hand final turn looks to be about 120 degrees, which is forced on them by the ridges to the NE and N of the airport, the downwind leg being about 30 degrees diverging from a normal parallel downwind leg.

Or, they might have been approaching from the NE.

My best guess is that the start of the finals turn was a little early, and a little tight, they then eased the turn to extend the range back out to normal distance, but that then left them with a tighter and larger angle of turn at short finals. This they didn't have the extra speed for, leading to an accelerated stall with insuffient height to even attempt a recovery.

However, whilst the inflight video is definitely of an approach to Pokhara, I have no way of telling if it is the pre-crash approach. It might be a prior one with the crash stuff inserted in.

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#35 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:55 pm

John Hill wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:36 pm
TheGreenAnger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:02 pm
Passenger filmed the crash... pretty disturbing...
What are the chances of this being genuine?
Highly likely to be genuine I think...

In the moments before Nepal’s deadliest air crash in decades on Sunday, four friends from India who were onboard began excitedly recording the descent on a Facebook live video.

They were heading to Pokhara for the trip of a lifetime, intending to visit temples and paraglide in Nepal’s famed Annapurna mountain range. “It’s really fun,” one of the men can be heard on the video surveying the city below as the plane began its descent. The friends can be heard laughing and joking as the camera is turned on a smiling Sonu Jaiswal, a 29-year-old father-of-three, who ran a small business back home in India.

All appears calm in the plane, with no emergency announcements or warnings from the pilot or staff. But suddenly, the plane appears to veer off with a loud roar, and the sounds of it crashing to the ground are captured on the phone camera, before the screen is filled with flames. The burning debris of the aircraft is momentarily visible on the screen before it goes black. No voices can be heard after that.

The harrowing video indicates that the 68 passengers and four staff onboard the Yeti Airlines flight had no idea the plane was in danger before an explosion just as it was landing.

Vishal Koswal, 21, a close friend of the four men heard in the video, confirmed the authenticity of the video.

He identified the four men, all from Ghazipur district in the state of Uttar Pradesh, as 29-year-old Jaiswal, 28-year-old Anil Rajbhar, 23-year-old Vishal Sharma and Abhishek Singh Kushwaha, 23, who had left for Nepal on 12 January. Local police also confirmed their identities.


Koswal said he had meant to join his four friends on the trip to Nepal but had to stay home after a the death of a relative. During their trip, he had spoken to them many times over video call, including a couple of hours before the crash.

“Sonu was showing us the mountains around on the call and was clearly excited, so were we,” said Koswal. “He told me on that call that after landing in Pokhara, they would visit some temples there and then in the evening take a train back home.”

He described the four friends as like “brothers” and said everyone in the area was “very emotional”. “This all seems like a nightmare, I still cannot believe we have lost all of them,” he added. “I can’t watch that crash video again, it is very hard and painful. A big tragedy has fallen over us.”

On Monday, rescuers continued the search to recover the final four bodies from the wreckage. There was no hope for survivors, said the authorities. The prime minister of Nepal declared a national day of mourning on Monday.

The group of friends from India were among 15 foreign nationals who were onboard the plane. The flight was carrying 57 Nepalis, five Indians, four Russians, two South Koreans, and one person each from Argentina, Ireland, Australia and France. It plunged into a gorge moments before it was due to land at Pokhara’s new international airport.

It was Nepal’s worst aviation disaster since 1992, when 167 people died onboard a Pakistan International Airlines flight that crashed on approach to Kathmandu.

The fire and thick smoke, as well as the treacherous terrain, made the rescue efforts by police and army officers challenging. Soldiers used ropes and stretchers to retrieve bodies from the 300-metre (1,000ft) deep ravine late into the night on Sunday. “We have so far sent 63 bodies to the hospital,” said police officer AK Chhetri on Monday.

Arun Tamu, 44, who was about 500 metres away from the site where the plane crashed, told AFP news agency he was among those who ran to the site to try to help. “A few of us rushed to see if we can rescue anybody. I saw at least two women were breathing. The fire was getting very intense and it made it difficult for us to approach closer,” he said.

Nepal’s air industry has boomed in recent years, carrying goods and people between hard-to-reach areas, as well as foreign trekkers and climbers. But it has also been plagued by poor safety due to insufficient training and maintenance. In May 2022, all 22 people onboard a plane operated by Nepali carrier Tara Air died when it crashed, and in March 2018, 51 people died when a US-Bangla Airlines plane crashed near Kathmandu.

The European Union has banned all Nepal airlines from its airspace over safety concerns.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... live-video
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#36 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:58 pm

How the hell can someone select flaps up instead of down?
Some of our ex-WWII Captains were known for demanding immediate obedience to orders without question or discussion. On take off one such Captain turned to his co-pilot and said " Cheer up" ( for some reason ). Guess what happened ? Disaster was avoided - just,

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#37 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:03 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:45 pm
More on the video
at 0:30 is the Nahar monument (28.214445, 84.002933).

So, it look like they were flying a tight left hand circuit to land. There is a very high ridge to the NW, which they would need to fly belly up to. The left hand final turn looks to be about 120 degrees, which is forced on them by the ridges to the NE and N of the airport, the downwind leg being about 30 degrees diverging from a normal parallel downwind leg.

Or, they might have been approaching from the NE.

My best guess is that the start of the finals turn was a little early, and a little tight, they then eased the turn to extend the range back out to normal distance, but that then left them with a tighter and larger angle of turn at short finals. This they didn't have the extra speed for, leading to an accelerated stall with insuffient height to even attempt a recovery.

However, whilst the inflight video is definitely of an approach to Pokhara, I have no way of telling if it is the pre-crash approach. It might be a prior one with the crash stuff inserted in.
Meanwhile, a video being widely shared online was allegedly filmed and broadcast on Facebook Live by one of the passengers in the final moments of the flight.

Earlier, a Pokhara airport spokesperson revealed the pilot asked the airport to switch runway minutes before his aircraft plunged into a deep gorge.

Experts who viewed video footage of the disaster said on Monday that the plane appeared to have stalled in mid-air, which can happen when a pilot tries to pull their aircraft up too steeply or slow down too much.
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/sout ... 63320.html
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#38 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:16 pm

The runway switch would certainly explain the flight path I have surmised. Turned right after heading for Rwy 30, diverging downwind forced by the terrain to the north, then tried to teardrop round, not getting too close to the NW ridge which they would have to be belly up to, onto short finals for Rwy 12.
Wouldn't be easy at the best of times.
Wonder if the Pilot Handling was in the RH seat? Might also explain the slightly too early initial turn to keep the airport in sight.

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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#39 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:54 pm

Further details on the provenance of the video.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-64287331
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Re: Yeti Airlines Crash

#40 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:04 pm

You are well on top of the emerging details, TGA.

Change the runway for "his" aircraft?

If the older male Captain were on the radio, would that mean the F/O was PH, and so flying from the RHS ?

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