Runway Incursion at JFK

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llondel
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Runway Incursion at JFK

#1 Post by llondel » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:42 pm

This could have been messy
US officials have launched an investigation after two planes full of passengers almost collided at a New York airport last week.

The close call happened on Friday at John F Kennedy International Airport, between a Boeing 777 headed to the UK and a Boeing 737 headed to the Dominican Republic.

One plane was about to take off while the other was crossing the same runway.

The collision was averted when an air controller noticed the two.

Using an expletive, the air traffic controller attempted to stop the Delta aeroplane as it was preparing to take wing.

"Delta 1943, cancel take-off clearance! Delta 1943, cancel take-off clearance!" the controller was captured saying in an audio recording made by LiveATC, a website that posts flight communications.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64293741

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#2 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:59 pm

Incident: American B772 at New York on Jan 13th 2023, runway incursion
By Simon Hradecky, created Sunday, Jan 15th 2023 14:40Z, last updated Sunday, Jan 15th 2023 18:56Z

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=503c9620&opt=0

Incident: American B772 at New York on Jan 13th 2023, runway incursion
By Simon Hradecky, created Sunday, Jan 15th 2023 14:40Z, last updated Sunday, Jan 15th 2023 18:56Z

An American Airlines Boeing 777-200, registration N754AN performing flight AA-106 from New York JFK,NY (USA) to London Heathrow,EN (UK), was taxiing on taxiway B for departure from runway 04L being cleared to cross runway 31L on taxiway K, the aircraft however continued straight on, joined taxiway J and crossed runway 04L at taxiway J about 1200 meters/4000 feet down runway 04L.

At that very moment a Delta Airlines Boeing 737-900, registration N914DU performing flight DL-1943 from New York JFK,NY (USA) to Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) with 145 passengers and 6 crew, was cleared for takeoff from runway 04L and was accelerating when tower noticed the conflict and instructed DL-1943 to cancel takeoff clearance with quite agitated voice, repeating that instruction a few seconds later until the crew reported they were rejecting takeoff. The Delta crew subsequently, in the voice of their transmissions to tower and "Uch!", indicated this became quite close. The aircraft vacated the runway to the left via taxiway J.

Tower subsequently instructed AA-106 to call a phone number due to pilot deviation.

After the phone call with tower AA-106 departed from runway 31L about 30 minutes later. DL-1943 returned to the apron, the aircraft remained on the ground for about 15 hours, then departed for the flight DL-1943 and reached Santo Domingo with a delay of about 14.5 hours.

The FAA reported according to preliminary analysis the 737 stopped about 1000 feet short of the intersection with taxiway J, where the 777 had crossed the runway. The FAA opened an investigation.

On Jan 15th 2023 the NTSB announced they have opened an investigation into the occurrence.

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Re: BA faux pas+near Delta disaster...

#3 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:07 pm

Better review.

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Re: BA faux pas+near Delta disaster...

#4 Post by llondel » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:19 pm

I already mentioned the runway incursion here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7767

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Re: BA faux pas+near Delta disaster...

#5 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:35 pm

llondel wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:19 pm
I already mentioned the runway incursion here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7767
Sorry llondel I didn't see that. Maybe I can persuade long suffering Admin2 to amalgamate the threads?
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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#6 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:33 am

Human error more likely in JFK near collision after alert system failure ruled out

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/business ... index.html

A source familiar with the near-collision of two airliners on a John F. Kennedy International Airport runway tells CNN that special flashing lights which warn pilots against taxiing across a runway were in fact working.

The new development further raises the possibility that human error contributed to the Friday evening incident.

The incident involved an American Airlines 777 that improperly crossed an active runway at the busy airport. “S**t!” an air traffic controller called out over the radio, urgently directing a Delta Air Lines 737 to stop its takeoff from the same runway where the American plane rolled across its direct path. The Delta plane stopped within 1,000 feet of the American jet.

On Wednesday, the source told CNN that following the incident, airport staff “went out immediately” to confirm Runway Status Lights were working properly.

JFK is one of 20 airports in the United States equipped with the fully automated Federal Aviation Administration system that warns pilots “when it is unsafe to enter, cross, or takeoff from a runway.”

On Tuesday, the National Transportation Safety Board told CNN that “interviews are ongoing” as part of its investigation into the incident. The FAA is also investigating.

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#7 Post by TheGreenAnger » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:51 am

My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: BA faux pas+near Delta disaster...

#8 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:25 am

Thank you TGA for posting the video in post #2. Very well presented.

Good thing the ATCO managed to stop the take off in time..... #:-S
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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#9 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:05 pm

First Officer On American JFK Runway Incursion Flight Had Added Task At Departure, Source Says

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 59e74767ac

The first officer on American Airlines Flight 106, which was involved in a runway incursion Friday night at Kennedy International Airport, was flying her first flight with new cockpit procedures, a source said.

At the time of the incursion, which forced a Delta Air Lines aircraft to stop suddenly, the first officer was engaged in a series of tasks that involved processing takeoff data that included flap and power settings as well as a runway assessment.

But for the first time, under new procedures introduced Jan. 2, she also had to make an announcement informing passengers and flight attendants of the impending takeoff, said the source, a pilot who has knowledge of the incident and who asked not to be named.

The procedures require the 777 first officer to inform passengers and flight attendants that takeoff is imminent. That announcement was previously made by the captain. It requires the first officer to interrupt continuing tasks, be precise on timing and change intercom settings.

The first officer, an experienced 737 pilot, was making her first 777 flight after 100 hours of training flights that did not include the new procedures.

“She has all this data to analyze and input, plus she has a new task on top of all that,” the source said. “She was overwhelmed.”

In the incident, Flight 106 crossed a runway about 1,000 feet in front of Delta Air LinesDAL +1.1% Flight 1943, which had to abort its takeoff. The Delta plane returned to the gate. The American plane, its pilots unaware of the close call, continued to London. No one was injured. Air traffic controller communications indicate that Flight 106 was on the wrong runway at the time.


Many have questioned why the American crew did not return to the gate after the incursion. The reason is that they had no knowledge of the seriousness of the incident, the source said. After the incident occurred, controllers gave the pilots a number to call.

They called, but it is unclear whether they got through, the source said.

“The crew didn’t understand the gravity of what occurred until they got to London,” the source said. “That is when they realized what happened. Until then, they didn’t know there had been a runway incursion.”

Although the first officer was experienced on the Boeing 737, “she was brand new in that airplane,” said the source. “She had just read the 35-page bulletin that changes procedures.”

The captain, meanwhile, had to make a left turn and then a right turn to get on the runway, and so did not have sufficient visibility to see stop bar lights on the runway. The captain was in fact on his way to another runway. A third pilot in the cockpit also could not see the lights.

At the time of the incident, the pilots had just switched to the tower frequency from the American ground tower. “They never heard Delta cleared for takeoff,” the source said. “Delta was cleared for takeoff before they switched over.”

On January 2, American Airlines implemented new cockpit procedures including changes to cockpit communications during critical events including takeoff. Allied Pilots Association, which represents 15,000 American pilots, said the implementation involves an attempt to alter critical procedures through a 35-page bulletin and changes in a 65- page manual rather than through in person training.

On Jan. 3, the day after implementation, American said: “These changes represent industry best practice and ensure improved crew coordination and consistency across fleet types so that our pilots can easily transition across different aircraft if they choose.

“These updates have been underway since 2021 and have been a coordinated effort with APA’s training committee,” the carrier said in a prepared statement. “Additionally, the approach to familiarizing our pilots has been approved by the FAA.

“Our commitment to safety is unwavering, which is why we regularly update our Aircraft Operating Manuals to ensure they represent the latest and safest information for our pilots,” American said.

An American spokeswoman declined to comment for this story, citing the ongoing National Transportation Safety Board investigation of the incident.

The Federal Aviation Administration’s Dallas-based principal operations inspector for American Airlines approved the implementation of the new procedures. Even before the incident, APA had appealed the approval.

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#10 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:32 pm

That sounds like a typical day at the office for the F/O to me. What was the Captain doing? Rushing the F/O? Failing to monitor? No excuses! Total BS from the airline.

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#11 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:55 pm

This is from the APA (Union) weekly newsletter.
Just for the record, these procedures have changed back and forth two or three times starting with the"merger of America West and US Airways and then US Airways and American.
Training by memo was the standard and it was not unusual to be called out during sim sessions that whatever call-out or procedure that was done was not the current one in use.
My standard response was that the company hired a **** instructor to teach me the changes (me).

In This Edition ...
Management Unilaterally Implements AOM Changes

In early December, American Airlines management announced unilateral changes to our SOPs that were to be required of all pilots beginning on Jan. 3. These new procedures were rolled out without any advance notice and with no additional training or other preparation that you would reasonably expect from a properly managed airline. On Dec. 19, APA’s members were informed that Your Leadership Opposes Training By Fleet Bulletin.

On Dec. 30, our National Officers advised our members that they were not contractually obligated to study these Premature Changes to AOMs during their off-duty time. Therefore, if management was going to insist on moving forward with the Jan. 3 implementation, then our pilots must be prepared to incorporate a review of these new AOM changes into their post-sign-in preflight planning.

On the eve of implementation, our National Officers and Board of Directors deemed management’s actions Unwise and Unsafe. They urged every pilot to take the time to review the operational and manual changes thoroughly before operating your respective aircraft, ensuring that you discuss amongst your crew any concerns that may exist BEFORE you execute your safety duties.

Once the new procedures took effect, we received word that management representatives were trying to intimidate pilots who were complying with their obligations to take the time necessary to review the changes. Our National Officers reminded the membership that APA Supports Pilots, NOT Management Intimidation.

Understandably, the news media was interested in this controversial decision by management. “We will not push off the gate until we feel prepared,” APA Communications Committee Chair CA Dennis Tajer told Forbes. “This is fixable if management would back off the unnecessary immediate changes. We want this to work, but we demand training.” He also told USA Today, “We understand what they’re trying to do, but like anything on the flight deck, you’ve got to get trained.” Meanwhile, Insider talked to three pilots on condition of anonymity, one of whom likened management’s actions to asking a band to learn a new song on stage: “Unfortunately, if we pilots play out of tune, even a little, there can be life-threatening consequences to our audience.”

On Thursday, APA President CA Ed Sicher summed up this rocky start to the new year with his Vacation No-Float and Pilot Resolve message: “This week, we had the perfect opportunity to demonstrate our resolve toward safety as we responded to management’s ill-advised rollout of changes to the AOM. Our pilots showed their resolve to ensure they were ‘in the green’ with regard to these new changes, despite intimidation and harassment by certain Chief Pilots in some cases. No pilot lost pay or their job as a result of doing what was necessary under the circumstances created by management.

“Let’s continue that resolve into the vacation bidding process and come out with a better solution for all of us.”

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#12 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:11 pm

Sounds like another effort by a big company to get the workers to do unpaid work.

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#13 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:44 pm

A million years ago, so I can't remember the initiating details, but one of our VC-10's taking off at Miami experienced a similar near disaster. The Captain realised that stopping before collision wasn't possible, so got airborne just before VR, then flew level just off the ground to build up speed then lifted the port wing tip over the nose of the now stopped aircraft that had started to cross the runway. No I.T., Tik Tok or Social Media to make a big deal of it in those days, so doubtless few ever knew. Just another day at the offfice ?

And remember KLM / PanAm at Teneriffe ? Nothing new under the sun.

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#14 Post by Boac » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:05 pm

I have gathered what information I can on this sad incident (near disaster) and confess to being totally bemused. I don't think we have any 'real' pilots here who can comment? I might be wrong, but watching Juan's take on this I find myself aghast at the total lack of professionalism displayed by AAL.

Firstly he refers to a 'relief pilot on the flight deck of the AAL. Why!? Is 7 hours or so flight time too much for the little darlings in AAL so that they need a 'relief' crew? Then, why did he or she apparently have their thumb up their bums for the whole taxi time?

Secondly, what was the flight brief AND ATC departure clearance before taxi? Was it a 04L departure? If so, why were they sitting prettily at the 31L hold having been given a taxi routing to 04L? What had they programmed?

Thirdly, why did the AAL crew continue the flight? It must have been obvious that a major catastrophe (caused by them) was narrowly averted, so surely it is RTB and face the music?

Management Captain by any chance?

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#15 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:02 pm

The first officer, an experienced 737 pilot, was making her first 777 flight after 100 hours of training flights that did not include the new procedures.

This indicates that she had completed IOE (Initial Operating Experience) flown with a check airman then the "Hundred Hour" line for consolidation of knowledge as referenced in the FAR below.

§ 121.434 Operating experience, operating cycles, and consolidation of knowledge and skills.
(g) Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this section, pilot in command and second in command crewmembers must each acquire at least 100 hours of line operating flight time for consolidation of knowledge and skills (including operating experience required under paragraph (c) of this section) within 120 days after the satisfactory completion of:

(1) Any part of the flight maneuvers and procedures portion of either an airline transport pilot certificate with type rating practical test or an additional type rating practical test, or

(2) A § 121.441 proficiency check.

Again all this was done under the old procedures and this was the first flight under the new "Train Yourself" procedures.
It would probably take almost as long to ingrain the new procedures as it took to initially get them.
I have gone through (at least) two "Train Yourself" semi-major changes and can confirm that it takes time to unlearn the old procedures and then relearn the new.
Unfortunately since we can't wipe and reprogram in computer like fashion it takes time. YMMV.

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#16 Post by Boac » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:35 pm

Are you with AAL? In which case apologies for "I don't think we have any 'real' pilots here who can comment?" If you are, some insight into this mess would be useful. What about the third pilot? Why was he/she there?

Not familiar with the 777 - can you programme two departure routes in the FMC?

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#17 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:50 pm

The new procedures and alleged extra workload still do not explain how 3 crew members managed to taxi the wrong way and not observe the active runway warning lights. And then not realise their mistake when they ended up at the threshold of the wrong runway, and told to phone ATC. Also, by this time they were now on Tower frequency and perhaps could have wonderd why the other aircraft had to abort take off......lack of situational awareness?
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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#18 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:55 pm

Retired from AA by way of America West and US Airways.
I was on A320 family the whole time 319, 320, 321, and 321NEO.
Never even been on 777 or 787.
Not sure about the relief pilot. :-??
Standard procedure for loading the box (FMC) is to program at the gate for either the departure runway advertised on the ATIS, or different runway if needed for operational necessity, and the departure procedure in your clearance received either by voice from clearance delivery or now at more and more airports via PDC. (CPDLC) Controller Pilot Data Link Communications was just starting to be used, only on the newly arriving NEOs, when I got fired for having a birthday. :(( X(
(CPDLC) was another example of "training by memo"TM AAL ~X( :-q

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#19 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:24 am

Why do you need to "programme" a taxy-route to the active runway on some FMS gadget, can't you just look at the airport chart ?

Or is taxying to the runway in use a "Hands off" manouvre undertaken by the auto-pilot now ?

Perhaps this is to allow the crew to attend to messages on their smartfones before leaving ? After all, all those who are following them on Farcebook need to know.

Gawd 'elp us all.

To those "who might now" - would an FMS programmed, hands off, route to the runway planned for take off, have prevented this incident ?

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Re: Runway Incursion at JFK

#20 Post by Boac » Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:34 am

confused of Lesser Antipode wrote:Why do you need to "programme" a taxy-route
You don't. It is normally copied down.

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