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J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

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J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#1 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:26 am

Planes collide over Winter Haven lake in Polk County, 4 dead, officials say
Witnesses say the planes crashed into each other, then fell into the water. Rescue workers are searching Lake Hartridge for possible survivors, officials said.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida/2 ... lake-polk/

WINTER HAVEN — Two small planes collided in midair over a central Florida lake Tuesday afternoon — killing four people, authorities said.

Rescue workers spent hours searching Lake Hartridge in Winter Haven for possible survivors Tuesday evening, Polk County Sheriff’s Office Chief of Staff Steve Lester said during a news conference. One person was pronounced dead after rescuers attempted CPR, he said.

The circumstances surrounding the discovery of the other three fatalities weren’t disclosed as of this writing.

Winter Haven is located about 40 miles southwest of Orlando.

The Federal Aviation Administration identified one of the planes as a Piper J-3 floatplane. In a news release Tuesday night, the Sheriff’s Office identified the other plane as a Cherokee Piper 161 fixed-wing plane and said it was “operated by Sunrise Aviation (Ormond Beach) on behalf of Polk State College.”

Deputies said they didn’t immediately know how many people were in the planes, where they had taken off or what caused the crash. The lake where the planes went down is located immediately to the southeast of the Winter Haven Regional Airport.

In a news release around 10 p.m., Polk officials said they believe the four were the only people aboard the two planes.

“It is no longer a search and rescue operation, but a recovery operation,” the release said.

Authorities identified three of those killed:

Faith Irene Baker, 24, of Winter Haven. Baker, a pilot/flight instructor at Sunrise Aviation, was in the Cherokee Piper 161.
Zachary Jean Mace, 19, of Winter Haven. Mace was a student at Polk State College and was also in the Cherokee Piper 161.
Randall Elbert Crawford, 67, of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Crawford was in the Piper J3 Cub.
The identity of the fourth person has not been confirmed yet, officials said.

Witnesses recalled the planes crashing into each other and then immediately falling into the water, Lester said. The wing of one plane was sticking out of the water, while the other aircraft had settled about 21 feet below the surface, officials said.

Lester said the FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate the crash.

I got my SES /MES ratings at Jack Brown's. The UC-1 (SeaBee converted to multi-engine) that I got my MES crashed a few years ago. Waiting to see the N-number of the J3; I got my SES in their 90HP J3.


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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#2 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:13 am

Juan Browne's analysis:



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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#3 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:59 am

I did my SES at Lake Havasu. We disappeared up the Colorado River for our water work to avoid just this kind of problem.
Not great vis upwards out of the J3, and the Pipers have a broad wing with poor downward vis, as I recall. Very long time since I've flown either.

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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#4 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:11 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:59 am
I did my SES at Lake Havasu. We disappeared up the Colorado River for our water work to avoid just this kind of problem.
Not great vis upwards out of the J3, and the Pipers have a broad wing with poor downward vis, as I recall. Very long time since I've flown either.
So you did yours in the Teal with Joe LaPlaca?
A friend of mine did his there and was signed off for his ATP SES.
I could only get Comm SMES as the Cub at Jack Brown's had no electrical system and the UC-1 (twin conversion of Republic SeaBee) was not signed off by the FAA for ATP.

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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#5 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:06 am

Joe took me on the Cessna 150.
He very kindly gave me a commercial reference I didn't ask for; extremely decent bloke.
He worked you very hard, and you learned a lot rapidly.
Being ex-fighters, I did not have the hours for ATPL.

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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#6 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:24 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:06 am
Joe took me on the Cessna 150.
He very kindly gave me a commercial reference I didn't ask for; extremely decent bloke.
He worked you very hard, and you learned a lot rapidly.
Being ex-fighters, I did not have the hours for ATPL.
Fox, it is quite amazing how few hours Air Rank officers have. I know which career progression I preferred. Forget the mahogany bomber in Whitehall. OK, I had a desk but I could get away from it and schedule myself. Higher required Free Masons and a brown nose.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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#7 Post by Rossian » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:54 pm

.... chatting to friend who was on F-4s in Germany who was familiarising his new squadron boss with his new job. I've always remembered his surprise expressed as "I've got more hours Phantom night than he has in total".
The said new boss was defenestrated after an accident by the dreadful P-E man who was Mr Germany at that time.

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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#8 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:16 pm

It's a slight digression, but my fighter hours were all stick time, and all vmc hours (day or night) were looking very carefully* out the windows for conflicting traffic (including, of course, the traffic I was trying to conflict with ;))) ).
I suspect ex-fast jet pilots have more of both than many airline pilots with tens of thousands of hours.
My students in light aircraft noted how much more mobile I was than their other instructors, continually moving my body as well as my head to see round the frames and structure. I always wanted to know where everyone was, all the time. And no matter how many aircraft I could see, I was always looking for 'the other one'. I suspect that may have prevented this accident.

*Certainly more carefully than any of the airline pilots I've been on the flightdeck with, though of course they were generally flying in controlled airspace, and I do not impute any lack of diligence among the august company here.

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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#9 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:01 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:16 pm
It's a slight digression, but my fighter hours were all stick time, and all vmc hours (day or night) were looking very carefully* out the windows for conflicting traffic (including, of course, the traffic I was trying to conflict with ;))) ).
I suspect ex-fast jet pilots have more of both than many airline pilots with tens of thousands of hours.
My students in light aircraft noted how much more mobile I was than their other instructors, continually moving my body as well as my head to see round the frames and structure. I always wanted to know where everyone was, all the time. And no matter how many aircraft I could see, I was always looking for 'the other one'. I suspect that may have prevented this accident.

*Certainly more carefully than any of the airline pilots I've been on the flightdeck with, though of course they were generally flying in controlled airspace, and I do not impute any lack of diligence among the august company here.
Fox, my dear chap. Most of my 10,000 hours were spent reading a newspaper or magazine. Never looked out of the window apart from on the ground or landing, that helped. I did my MBA with a laptop on the flight deck. Otherwise spent many hours down the back chatting to people. Guess you were a bit limited on the number of people to talk to if you went walk about. B-)

Yes agree in this case better look out and situational awareness would have probably avoided the accident.
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Re: J-3 on Floats and Pa-28 Mid-air at Winter Haven, FL 4 Dead

#10 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:53 pm

Navigators are not selected for their conversational wit and repartee, and like my instructors their comments were usually restricted to either instructions or sardonic references to my lack of ability.

I would occasionally get a banana :D

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