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Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

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Ex-Ascot
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#441 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:23 am

GG unfortunately as we all thought he screwed it up. He got away with the trial and what would have been the point of slamming him up anyway. If he has got any sense he will have disposed of all assets so no relative can make any financial gain. So I agree, he is guilty but drop it.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#442 Post by Boac » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:10 am

Ex-A - have you put your points to the AAIB and the Inquest coroner?

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#443 Post by om15 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:05 am

Similarity to the unfortunate incident at Croughton, it is sometimes expedient to just say these things happen because there doesn't seem to be a reasonable retribution for a mistake. Difficult for the next of kin to appreciate this though.
My observation is that other than the Vulcan which seemed a professional operation these aging aircraft are maintained and flown by enthusiasts without much in the way of regulatory oversight, as evidenced by findings in the original AAIB report, if the operations were put under one organisation that enforced strict rules based on the EASA regulations this might not have happened, the CAA oversight certainly didn't prevent this from happening.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#444 Post by Boac » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:34 am

We now have a terrific 'get out of jail card' - I am driving along in a bit of a daze one sunny morning, thinking about what to buy my beloved for Christmas, and fail to negotiate a bend and smack head on into a small coach killing and maiming several people. It's ok, guys - I was just suffering from Cognative Impairment? Yup - that's expedient. Let it go.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#445 Post by ian16th » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:36 am

om15 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:05 am
Similarity to the unfortunate incident at Croughton, it is sometimes expedient to just say these things happen because there doesn't seem to be a reasonable retribution for a mistake. Difficult for the next of kin to appreciate this though.
My observation is that other than the Vulcan which seemed a professional operation these aging aircraft are maintained and flown by enthusiasts without much in the way of regulatory oversight, as evidenced by findings in the original AAIB report, if the operations were put under one organisation that enforced strict rules based on the EASA regulations this might not have happened, the CAA oversight certainly didn't prevent this from happening.
Think Thunder City and Lightning.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#446 Post by barkingmad » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:43 am

boac. Exactly the same form of CI which I regularly observe in drivers approaching me on a 2-way road with their offside tyres straying over the white line(s) as their eyes are inside looking at the satnav screen or the mobile phone screen or whichever sophisticated display the manufacturers have decided to fit in the new model.

So, officer, I killed them all because of the car equipment.

Nah, it was careless-bordering on dangerous driving and it’s a fair cop due to lack of due care and attention!

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#447 Post by om15 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:48 am

Boac, I wasn't advocating this conclusion, just saying that is what is likely to happen, this seems to have occured because the pilot used the figures applicable to a JP and not a Hunter, a simple mistake with tragic consequences. It is not easy to think of what to do next, if he visited the next of kin and said it happened because he made an error that might help, but he will be advised against any sort of admission.
If a lorry driver has a fatality after, say, falling asleep at the wheel, he goes to prison, difficult to see the difference, but for some reason it seems to be thought that this shouldn't happen in this case.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#448 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:29 am

Boac wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:10 am
Ex-A - have you put your points to the AAIB and the Inquest coroner?
Boac you are the most qualified, by far, to comment on this case. No, obviously things will take their course. It will be interesting to see what view the coroner takes given this latest report.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#449 Post by Boac » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:16 am

I have already 'commented' on the case both here and elsewhere - in my opinion he made a dreadful mistake and will suffer the consequences for life and needs no further 'punishment'. If you recall your days in blue, this accident has effectively been judged as 'excusable negligence'. Cognative impairment was simply a very clever ploy by the lawyers and raises huge questions of human responsibility in all things. Any input of mine to the AAIB and the Coroner would be a waste of time!

I am puzzled by your words "So I agree, he is guilty but drop it." Drop what? My reporting aviation news on the site? The inquest? The bereaved pursuing the case under civil law? Aviation bodies seeking to prevent any further similar accidents? What do you wish 'dropped'?

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#450 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:19 pm

No Boac I am not suggesting that you stop posting on the matter. I am suggesting that the authorities are wasting their time. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

I think that we have already learnt from this. Don't bust limits. However this is drummed into all pilots no matter what the limits are.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#451 Post by Boac » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:25 pm

I would question what the 'authorities' are doing that concerns you? There are, as far as I know, no further CPS actions and an Inquest is a mandatory occurrence. The recent AAIB input is puzzling, but I assume there had been some 'ripples' below the surface (if that is physically possible!). I know a lot of aviation professionals are very concerned about the implications of 'Cognative Impairment' as an 'excuse' and what those implications are for the future of anything such as display flying and insurance etc. and what it means for the skill of self-monitoring so necessary in such activities.

My 'vote' is to let this run its course, as it should.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#452 Post by Boac » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:13 am


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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#453 Post by barkingmad » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:04 pm

Is it possible that after the jury who pronounced on Hill’s guilt, or lack thereof, gave a verdict which was seriously questioned, then the powers that be have decided that on such a technical matter “twelve good men and true” cannot be trusted to consider the evidence at inquest?

I don’t know exactly what will be scrutinised at the inquest or will it be a verdict of death by misadventure or accidental killing or what?

Maybe one of our number who’s got legal training might be able to clarify, if so bring it on.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#454 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:30 am

Yes, I do not understand this either. Hill was found not guilty of manslaughter. So, it is an accident, misadventure or whatever as you say. Why is it going to take 6 days to come up with that.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#455 Post by Boac » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:40 am

6 weeks, actually. She could record an 'open verdict'. I am not familiar with the work of a coroner.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#456 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:55 am

Boac wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:40 am
6 weeks, actually. She could record an 'open verdict'. I am not familiar with the work of a coroner.
I would guess that that is most likely to be the finding from the coroner.

https://www.funeralguide.co.uk/help-res ... coroner-do

Hopefully the finding will allow the process to move on and put a line underneath this tragic episode.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#457 Post by Ex-Ascot » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:07 am

Boac wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:40 am
6 weeks, actually. She could record an 'open verdict'. I am not familiar with the work of a coroner.
Thank you Boac. I read 'weeks' but typed 'days'.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#458 Post by Boac » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:01 am

PAF crash - 'similar' to Shoreham but with (hopefully) less casualties

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... the-ground

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#459 Post by barkingmad » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:31 pm

Unlike Shoreham is it likely this is another ‘G’ LOC accident?

Even the Bae Hawk200 test pilot was not immune to this problem IIRC?

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#460 Post by Boac » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:38 pm

I don't think so - it looked 'controlled' when it crashed judging by the 'boots on the dashboard and pulling' - if you know what I mean.

Sorted out the FT yet?

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