Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#161 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:24 am

Boac wrote:
Caco wrote:Are we simply expected to conclude that a perfectly rational, reasonable pilot etc etc
- would he be the first, Caco?


Nope, no doubt it has happened but it is likely to be impossible to prove in this case. As for Mr Hill, his career is over, his life probably pretty much ruined and his conscience probably haunted by questions and doubts about that awful day. Can there be a worse fate for a man and a professional pilot?

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#162 Post by Boac » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:52 am

No - as I said elsewhere it is better to die in similar circumstances.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#163 Post by AtomKraft » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:02 pm

I've read the thread on here, and the threads in 'the other place'.

Why is it so hard for pilots to accept that a fellow pilot made a raging mess of things?

I've dropped a few clangers during my 12,500 hours- who hasn't?

AH is on video dropping one or two of his own, and he clearly made a big mess of his Hunter display at Shoreham. If one searches on't web, there are many videos of decent pilots either killing themselves, or narrowly avoiding same.

If the Hunter had some mechanical failure, or if it didn't, the manoeuver should have been abandoned when he went over the top too low.

Pilots sometimes get it wrong, and there's not always "lessons to be learned".

Sometimes, you (or I) just made a cock of it.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#164 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:24 pm

I doubt that anybody thinks the AH didn't make an awful mistake but I don't see the value in prosecuting the man or hounding him in the same way that poor Captain Glen Stewart was by the CAA and an ignorant judiciary which led indirectly to that poor man's death.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#165 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:36 pm

Cacophonix wrote:I doubt that anybody thinks the AH didn't make an awful mistake but I don't see the value in prosecuting the man or hounding him in the same way that poor Captain Glen Stewart was by the CAA and an ignorant judiciary which led indirectly to that poor man's death.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#166 Post by Boac » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:52 pm

I agree, but we pilots must appreciate the feelings of the bereaved who may seek some sort of closure. Would you argue for no prosecution of a driver who killed a few people or a family member?

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#167 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:40 pm

Boac wrote:I agree, but we pilots must appreciate the feelings of the bereaved who may seek some sort of closure. Would you argue for no prosecution of a driver who killed a few people or a family member?
I
Ex-Ascot wrote:
Cacophonix wrote:I doubt that anybody thinks the AH didn't make an awful mistake but I don't see the value in prosecuting the man or hounding him in the same way that poor Captain Glen Stewart was by the CAA and an ignorant judiciary which led indirectly to that poor man's death.

Caco



With you 100% Caco.


I understand that and agree with you Boac and I don't believe that there should be a whitewash but given the nature of an aerobatic display the responsibility for what happened that day lies with multiple parties and organisations, the CAA (multiple departments), the Shoreham display organisers leading stepwise down to the pilot. The way the press was baying for the pilot's blood and given the lack of understanding of the complex nature of the chain of causation and responsibility for such an accident it was (and still is highly likely) that AH would/will be scapegoated. That should not be allowed to happen.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#168 Post by Boac » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:02 pm

Well, I still do not see that the show organisers should be held to blame for a crash 'off field'.

Re the rest, the case must, if so judged by CPS, go to a trial and hopefully a sensible 'finding' result. I have no doubt AH's life has also been ruined without further punishment, but justice surely calls for it to be tried? As I said way back, it can easily be preferable to die in a crash than to survive like this.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#169 Post by Bob » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:14 pm

It was a mistake, I know I have made a couple that could have ended very very badly, but got away with it.
Do see that from the POV of the dead and injured's families, they need some sort of understanding and perhaps retribution, but it won't make anyone any safer in the future.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#170 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:05 am

Boac wrote:Well, I still do not see that the show organisers should be held to blame for a crash 'off field'.

Re the rest, the case must, if so judged by CPS, go to a trial and hopefully a sensible 'finding' result. I have no doubt AH's life has also been ruined without further punishment, but justice surely calls for it to be tried? As I said way back, it can easily be preferable to die in a crash than to survive like this.


I am sure that AH's loved ones, friends etc. are delighted that he survived as I am (and I am sure you are too) Boac! ;)

The show organiser's can be held liable for an off field excursion in the sense that they need to be aware of the display profile and be party to signing off the risk assessment and authorisation for the display. The Shoreham folks were pretty clueless as to what AH's display profile would be and thus may be deemed negligent.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#171 Post by Boac » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:29 am

I am sure that AH's loved ones, friends etc. are delighted that he survived as I am (and I am sure you are too) Boac!


I was not referring to the others!

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#172 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:35 am

All I am implying Boac is that while AH might feel awful about what happened he will come to appreciate his survival and the fact his life was spared.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#173 Post by Boac » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:58 am

All I am implying Boac is that while I WOULD EXPECT AH WILL feel awful about what happened he MIGHT come to appreciate his survival and the fact his life was spared.


Fixed. Unless, of course, you know differently?

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#174 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:01 am

Well at least we can agree on that then.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#175 Post by Boac » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:28 pm

At the pre-inquest hearing today it a announced there would be another pre-inquest hearing on January 24th 2018 with a full inquest scheduled for September. The coroner has asked for updates to the police investigation to be issued on September, 30, and November, 30, and put into the public domain.

Andy Hill is being investigated by the police for for possible manslaughter by gross negligence and for possible endangerment contrary to Article 138 Air Navigation Order 2009. It was warned that any decison to prosecute by CPS would further delay the inquest.

Horrendous for the families.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#176 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:12 pm

So, we have three reasons not to prosecute. It will achieve nothing it will prolong the inquest and it will save tax payer's money.
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#177 Post by Boac » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:36 pm

I believe some 23000 files have been prepared by the police for CPS which suggests some intent to pursue a case.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#178 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:42 pm

How on earth can they put together 23,000 files on just one prang? What waste of time, money and trees. I know, relatives want AH to pay for his error. To what end?
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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#179 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:48 pm

I am 100% in accord with your position on this Ex-Ascot.

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Re: Shoreham Air Show Plane Crash

#180 Post by compo » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:53 pm

In a few words - pour encourager les autres.

How many corners were cut? How many blind eyes turned? AH may not be the only person facing the beak

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