MiG 23 Down at Thunder Over Michigan Air Show

[PHXPhlyer]

2 people safely eject from jet that later crashed during Thunder Over Michigan air show

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/13/us/thund ... index.html

Two people ejected from a jet that later crashed during the Thunder Over Michigan air show on Sunday afternoon, authorities said.

Neither suffered significant injuries but both were taken to a local hospital as a precaution, the Wayne County Airport Authority said in a statement.

The aircraft then crashed in the parking lot of a nearby apartment complex and struck unoccupied vehicles, the airport authority said. No one in the apartment complex was injured, it added.

The two people, who parachuted from the aircraft, landed in Belleville Lake, the Federal Aviation Administration told CNN.

The agency described the aircraft as an MiG-23 jet and said the two individuals ejected just south of Willow Run Airport, near the city of Ypsilanti.

Both the FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate the incident.

Leaders of Thunder Over Michigan, a two-day event of airshows, said they would stop the show after a “situation,” but did not share further details.

“Please make your way into your vehicles and calmly make your way out of the airfield,” the post said. “Please be patient as we control traffic around the area.”

PP

[PHXPhlyer]

Fighter jet crash at Thunder Over Michigan air show: What we know

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 587954007/

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/na ... 350356001/

On Sunday afternoon, a fighter jet crashed at the Thunder Over Michigan air show in Ypsilanti. Here's what happened, and what you should know about the crash.

Was anyone injured in the crash?
Officials investigate the site where a MiG-23 crashed during the Thunder Over Michigan air show near the Waverly on the Lake apartment complex in Van Buren Township on Sunday, August 13, 2023.
Thousands of spectators were in attendance at the air show, which took place Saturday and Sunday and was celebrating its 25th anniversary. No one was injured from the crash, and the pilot, listed as Dan Filer in the program, and backseater were able to successfully eject from the aircraft before the plane went down around 4 p.m. The pair aboard the aircraft parachuted to the ground and were then transported to a hospital for surveillance.

Where did the crash occur?
Spectators look on after a MiG-23 aircraft crashed into the ground at the Thunder over Michigan air show at the Willow Run Airport in Ypsilanti on Sunday, Aug. 13, 2023. Two people reportedly ejected from the aircraft prior to the crash.
The Yankee Air Museum's Thunder Over Michigan air show took place at Willow Run Airport in Ypsilanti. The aircraft crashed into the parking lot at the Waverly on the Lake Apartments on Denton Road at the I-94 service drive in Van Buren Township, striking unoccupied vehicles and narrowly missing the apartment complex. Witnesses reported a loud boom and plumes of smoke erupting into the air following the crash, as emergency crews rushed to extinguish the flames.

What kind of aircraft was it?
A MiG-23 aircraft is seen in the air moments before crashing during the Thunder Over Michigan Airshow at the Willow Run Airport in Ypsilanti on Sunday, August 13, 2023. Two people reportedly ejected from the aircraft prior to the crash.
The plane was a MiG-23, a Russian fighter jet which can travel faster than the speed of sound. The cockpit of the aircraft reportedly had poor visibility, with an ejection seat which wrapped around the pilot's head.

Thunder Over Michigan:Fighter jet crashes during air show in Ypsilanti

Why did the jet crash?
The plane was doing aerial maneuvers just before the two passengers ejected from the aircraft following an explosion. It is still unclear what exactly caused the crash. The Federal Aviation Administration is currently investigating the situation.

PP

[PHXPhlyer]

Juan Browne's analysis:



PP

[G-CPTN]

the two passengers

?

[Ex-Ascot]

the two passengers

?

Could have been a trainer. Or are you questioning the 'passengers'. What happened to the cabin crew?

[G-CPTN]

Whilst the 'reporters' might have difficulty identifying the occupants as to whether they were 'pilots', I believe that 'passengers (plural is stretching their ignorance.

What is wrong with 'occupants'?

[FD2]

Does the UK CAA allow the use of armed ejector seats in ex-military aircraft on the UK Register?

[Boac]

Whilst the 'reporters' might have difficulty identifying the occupants as to whether they were 'pilots', I believe that 'passengers (plural is stretching their ignorance.

Maybe a twisted sense of humour in the journo? It has been said (and I can vouch for it...) that when the engine of a single-engined aircraft quits you essentially become a 'passenger'

[Ex-Ascot]

Whilst the 'reporters' might have difficulty identifying the occupants as to whether they were 'pilots', I believe that 'passengers (plural is stretching their ignorance.

Maybe a twisted sense of humour in the journo? It has been said (and I can vouch for it...) that when the engine of a single-engined aircraft quits you essentially become a 'passenger'

No, glider pilot.

[PHXPhlyer]

No, glider pilot.

With no engine, no hydraulics.
So back to being a passenger.

PP

[OneHungLow]

"I am ejecting, and you are coming with me...!" Looking at the video (see link below), the guy in the back seat made the right decision.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has released the preliminary report on the investigation into the crash of a privately owned MiG-23UM at the Thunder Over Michigan airshow earlier this month.

As previously reported by FLYING, on August 13 both pilots ejected from MiG at low altitude during an airshow performance. The pilots sustained minor injuries in the event and were rescued from Belleville Lake. The jet came down near the Waverly on the Lake Apartments in Belleville, damaging a few cars.

The aircraft, known as a “Flogger,” was owned and flown by Dan Flier, a former U.S. Naval aviator. The aircraft had been one of the highlights at the EAA’s AirVenture in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, a few weeks earlier.

The flight was the second-to-last act performing at the airshow staged at the Willow Run Airport (KYIP) in Ypsilanti, Michigan.

The MiG is a Russian design that uses variable-geometry wings that allow their sweep angle to be changed in flight. The jet is powered by a single turbojet engine with afterburner capability.

According to the NTSB preliminary report, the pilot reported that the flight departed from Runway 23 at KYIP, followed by a right turn to a low-level knife edge pass along Runway 23.

“Following the pass, he started banking the airplane and noticed that the engine afterburner did not ignite, and the airspeed began to decrease,” the report states. “He brought the swing wings into the fully forward position (16-degree sweep) to increase lift and began troubleshooting the problem.”

The report continues that as the pilot was actively troubleshooting the problem, the rear seat observer stated that they needed to eject. The pilot reported that he was not ready to eject and was still troubleshooting while maneuvering the airplane toward Runway 27 at Willow Run when his ejection seat fired. According to the pilot, if either occupant pulls the ejection handle, both seats eject.

The rear seat observer told the NTSB that the airplane made a pass along the runway, and the plan was to go to the left for another pass followed by a landing. However, the engine was not “accelerating.”

“He and the pilot had a brief discussion and began to climb up and gain altitude,” the report states. “They determined that they had some type of engine problem and needed to get back on the ground. He stated that they determined they did not have sufficient altitude to make it to a runway at the airport. He said they were compressed for time and needed to get out.”

When asked if he had pulled the ejection seat handles, the back seat observer stated that he could not specifically remember but thinks that he would have pulled them.

The ejection was captured on video, showing the airplane in a left bank when the ejection seats fire. The airplane continued to the left and descended into the ground, coming down about 1 mile south of the approach end of Runway 27 at KYIP. There was a postimpact explosion and fire that produced a large column of black smoke.

The fuselage and empennage containing the tail surfaces and engine came down in the parking lot next to the apartment building. The rest of the aircraft was fragmented and distributed along the ground.

It will be several months before the NTSB will conclude its investigation and issue a final report on the cause of the accident.

www.youtube.com/shorts/q5eapo8OStc

https://www.flyingmag.com/ntsb-releases ... g-accident

[OneHungLow]

"I am ejecting, and you are coming with me...!" Looking at the video (see link below), the guy in the back seat made the right decision.

Unless the engine was running and providing enough thrust to make it to the runway and the hydraulics were working....

I await the final report with some interest.

[Boac]

"I am ejecting, and you are coming with me...!" Looking at the video (see link below), the guy in the back seat made the right decision.

Was that a quotation from somewhere else or your writing? There is no way that was the 'right' decision. To some extent is depends on who is actually 'Captain' of the ship, but PF really should decide. It was, of course, not absolutely the 'wrong' decision since both survived, but... the front-seater could have broken his neck on ejection or worse. I know detail of 2 instances where the back-seater ejected (fortunately no 'command' ejection) and on both occasions it was the wrong decision.

If I were ever in the position of flying the back-seater I would ensure his C/E was off!

[OneHungLow]

"I am ejecting, and you are coming with me...!" Looking at the video (see link below), the guy in the back seat made the right decision.

Was that a quotation from somewhere else or your writing? There is no way that was the 'right' decision. To some extent is depends on who is actually 'Captain' of the ship, but PF really should decide. It was, of course, not absolutely the 'wrong' decision since both survived, but... the front-seater could have broken his neck on ejection or worse. I know detail of 2 instances where the back-seater ejected (fortunately no 'command' ejection) and on both occasions it was the wrong decision.

If I were ever in the position of flying the back-seater I would ensure his C/E was off!

It was an ironic quote Boac. The dynamic in an aircraft with such an ejection system, as you imply, does beg an ejection protocol and a clear delineation of roles and command responsibilities. In one sense, in this case, if the ejection itself was justified, if not actually authorized by the Captain, one of the ejectee's chute opened very low indeed. Given a few more seconds of troubleshooting might have doomed, one or both of them to a big splash with partially opened chutes.

What is/was the standard protocol for ejection in the RAF where the back seater had the ability to eject without taking the front seater with him/her. Was it incumbent on the Captain to give the eject command? What was the situation where one member of the crew flew the coop, as it were, while the other went on to land the aircraft safely. Court martial, pay for the beers and wear the cone of shame in perpetuity?

[Boac]

No idea as there was no such thing in my service time. I would argue about the timing being 'fortunate', though. Unless the a/c was uncontrollable (and we do not know whether that was or was not the case), commanding ejection with a large bank angle is not a good idea. It will lead to a low chute-opening height.

Your words (I think?)

Looking at the video (see link below), the guy in the back seat made the right decision.

I would not presume to say.

[OneHungLow]

No idea as there was no such thing in my service time. I would argue about the timing being 'fortunate', though. Unless the a/c was uncontrollable (and we do not know whether that was or was not the case), commanding ejection with a large bank angle is not a good idea. It will lead to a low chute-opening height.

Your words (I think?)

Looking at the video (see link below), the guy in the back seat made the right decision.

I would not presume to say.

All will become clearer in the fullness of time, I guess. "Wait for the "accident report!", as some say! Maybe the bloke who owns the aircraft will sue the backseat puller for the loss of his aircraft!

[CharlieOneSix]

I can't find the reference at the moment but I believe this happened at Yeovilton in a Phantom when the back seat guy thought it was turning to rats on finals but the aircraft landed safely....still looking..

[Boac]

ohl - I would not presume to know, but I suspect the ship was 'going down' so I think his lawsuit would 'crash', but there is always (well, nearly always) a 'time and a place'.

I made mine with a calculated .5 of a second in hand.

[OneHungLow]

ohl - I would not presume to know, but I suspect the ship was 'going down' so I think his lawsuit would 'crash', but there is always (well, nearly always) a 'time and a place'.

I made mine with a calculated .5 of a second in hand.

Talk about the proverbial lifetime in a fraction of a second! Gives real meaning to "in extremis."

I trust the OP will give me some leeway in posting another example of "in extremis" in these matters

https://us.bremont.com/blogs/blogbook/ejecting

[4mastacker]

No idea as there was no such thing in my service time. I would argue about the timing being 'fortunate', though. Unless the a/c was uncontrollable (and we do not know whether that was or was not the case), commanding ejection with a large bank angle is not a good idea. It will lead to a low chute-opening height.

Your words (I think?)

Looking at the video (see link below), the guy in the back seat made the right decision.

I would not presume to say.

Red Arrows Hawk T1 XX227. The back-seater, Sgt Paul Inman decided to pull the black and yellow during a low-level transit between Machrihanish and Kinloss. According to the BoI file, the aircraft (one of a pair) was meant to be at a minimum of 500' AGL when it clipped some Scottish Hydro power lines which were on a 30' pole - the term "gathering heather" was used. Paul told me afterwards his thoughts at the time were "F*** this, I'm going". He was the only member of the Sgts' Mess with an MB tie and didn't have to buy a beer for quite a while. IIRC the driver was Red Five. OC S&M tasked me with doing the write-off paperwork. The eye-watering cost of the write-off raised many eyebrows in high places including No 11.