King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

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CharlieOneSix
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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#61 Post by CharlieOneSix » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:32 pm

Caco - FD2 will probably recall the average autorotation descent rate of the Sikorsky S76 which is roughly similar in size to the AW169 but with a MAUW of, I think, 11,700lbs is 1700lbs or so heavier. My last steed, the Bell 214ST, with a MAUW of 17,500lbs would autorotate at somewhere around 1500ft/min if I recall correctly from almost 20 years ago, but it varied considerably depending on weight. When I had a technical incident at 3000ft with16 pax on board it took only 75 seconds to autorotate into a field (2400ft/min ROD) - but I was in rather a hurry to get down!!! The auto speed for least ROD was 75kts and a range auto was done at 100kts.

Looking at the video there was no way from that height and circa zero airspeed that the AW169 could ever be established in autorotation.
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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#62 Post by FD2 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:32 pm

Trying to delve in the remaining couple of brain cells here - if he dropped the collective and didn't worry about any possible Nr overspeed I would guess he would come down at about 2,500 fpm or more. Somewhere in my garage I have some old flight manuals for the S76 - I'll see if I can find them - but the S76A and B were older machines built using older technology and I know nothing about this machine. We don't know what height the problem occurred - it is possibly in the 500 ft area but they might never have achieved that if there were indications of a problem earlier in the profile and the pilot started to take action. We also don't know what his TOW was (or should that be 'mass' these days?) but he appears to have adequate power in hand on the climb out.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#63 Post by Woody » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:20 pm

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#64 Post by FD2 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:14 am

Very sad but if it was a 206B I think that is a single engine Jetranger with a two bladed teetering rotor head. Been in service yonks and very reliable.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#65 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:55 am

There is a very disturbing pre-wedding video doing the rounds on YouTube of a bride and bridegroom on their way to a wedding in Brazil in an R44 which appears to continue VFR into IMC and crashes with the loss of all onboard.

I suppose statisically weddings are dangerous times for all concerned as they involve mass transporation by multiple types of vehilce (including helicopters sometimes) with a concomitant, very small, rise in the likelihood of an accident to somebody involved.


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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#66 Post by FD2 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:07 am

I saw that video Caco - as you say, very disturbing that someone would press on in those conditions. ‘Cowboy’ flying doesn’t do it justice.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#67 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:05 am

FD2 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:07 am
I saw that video Caco - as you say, very disturbing that someone would press on in those conditions. ‘Cowboy’ flying doesn’t do it justice.

Shocking indeed C16.

I wonder if in some cases, inexperienced pilots (or even very experienced ones) feel the need to "press on" lest they inconvenience the couple or the expectant passengers who are blissfully unaware of the dangers they face sometimes.

Many years ago I chartered a Cessna 210 to fly me and my better half out to the Shamwari game reserve in South Africa on New year's eve for a day trip. The aircraft owner was the pilot and I didn't tell him I was a pilot too. The flight out was made in perfect VFR conditions but soon after we got there a fast moving front accompanied by embedded thunderstorms moved in and Plettenberg Berg, our departure airfield went down to VFR minima. There was only an informal NDB let down procedure at Plettenberg Bay in those days (and it may still be the same there) and I walked across to the pilot and told him I was not prepared to fly back through the line of squalls in the hope of fudging an approach to the airfield and that I would put us all up at the luxury lodge for the evening. The relief on his face was palpable as I could see he felt under stress to get us back for the New Years festivities at our hotel. The decision was a good one as a line of violent squalls followed by IMC down to 200 feet soon arrived and the weather socked in until much later in the evening. The folks at the lodge were great and even waived the cost of the pilot's room. We left calm, rested and in perfect conditions after having chased the giraffe off the airstrip early the next morning.

In the sad case of this US couple it appears that the pilot was a 76 year old ex-US army pilot who flew in Vietnam. Obviously very experienced who knew the route well. However the flight was made at night in a barren part of the country and soon after takeoff the aircraft impacted a hill.

CFIT, spatial disorientation in black bowl conditions? I won't speculate further! Suffice it to say a planning regimen that allowed for a night stopover at the ranch, rather than a long night flight in a rush to catch a honeymoon flight from San Antonio, might have been a better one!


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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#68 Post by ian16th » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:28 am

Pressonitus!

One of the biggest causes of aviation accidents!
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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#69 Post by CharlieOneSix » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:32 pm

It appears a Service Bulletin has been released today for all AW169 and AW189 helicopters after the AW169 King Power Stadium accident:
........requires an urgent check of the proper installation and functionality of the Tail Rotor servo-actuator feedback lever installation and interface on the back end of the component.

Incorrect installation may lead to loss of Tail Rotor control which, depending on the
flight condition, could lead to loss of control of the aircraft.
I don't know enough about these types of helicopters to deduce anything from the above.
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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#70 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:56 pm

In the circumstances, it would appear that some who do know the anatomy of the beast, and of its cable-hauled TR control link, have already done some deducing.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#71 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:46 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:56 pm
In the circumstances, it would appear that some who do know the anatomy of the beast, and of its cable-hauled TR control link, have already done some deducing.

I see that the Isle of Scilly Steamship Company voluntarily grounded their AW169 on October the 29th, a few days before they had intended to take it out of service anyway over the winter period. I guess all operators of the type will be awaiting the full details of the tail rotor servo directive with some trepidation.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... er-2166254
Unverified text of the service bulletin circulating on social media calls for an urgent check to ensure a specific component - the tail rotor servo-actuator feedback lever installation and interface – has been installed properly and is functioning correctly.

"Incorrect installation may lead to loss of tail rotor control which, depending on the flight condition, could lead to loss of control of the aircraft," the bulletin warns.

The European Aviation Safety Agency is to make Leonardo's recommendation the subject of an airworthiness directive.

So far, the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch has divulged little detail of its probe into the incident.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... on-453371/


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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#72 Post by Ibbie » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:40 pm

AAIB's first report has been issued

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... G-VSKP.pdf

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#73 Post by Boac » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:55 pm

For C16 or FD2 - how would the AAIB know about an 'attempted' left turn? Was there an FDR on the machine?

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#74 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:38 pm

Boac wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:55 pm
For C16 or FD2 - how would the AAIB know about an 'attempted' left turn? Was there an FDR on the machine?
Thanks for posting the AAIB interim report Boac...

Not either of those two good chaps but...
Investigators have recovered the flight data recorder from the helicopter of Leicester City's owner which crashed on Saturday.

Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha was one of five people killed when the helicopter crashed in a car park at the King Power Stadium following the club's match against West Ham.

Air Accidents Investigation Branch said data recovered at the crash site has already been taken back to Farnborough for analysis and work has started on the decoder.

The recorder was "subject to intense heat as a result of the post-accident fire", the investigations team said.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... -recovered

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#75 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:58 pm

Boac wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:55 pm
For C16 or FD2 - how would the AAIB know about an 'attempted' left turn? Was there an FDR on the machine?
Yes.

The AAIB interim report says:
Heading changes consistent with the direction of pedal movements were recorded initially, then the helicopter entered an increasing right yaw contrary to the pilot’s left pedal command. The helicopter reached a radio height of approximately 430 ft before descending with a high rotation rate.

and:

The AAIB investigation will also continue to conduct a comprehensive examination of the helicopter wreckage, recovery and analysis of recorded data from the Combined Voice and Flight Data Recorder (CVFDR),
aircraft systems and other sources, and an assessment of the operation, maintenance, design and manufacture of the aircraft.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#76 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:44 pm

We gave him a double whammy there Undried Plum but I think he was just testing to see who had read the AAIB report. I read it after I had posted the earlier news about the FDR being recovered.

He is canny man our Boac. Always testing to see if the FO is a sharp as can be expected =))


Clearly I am as a blunt or as soft as an HB pencil as it was Ibbie who posted the AAIB report.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#77 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:13 pm

I see that the AAIB have listed the person in the left seat as a passenger.

As she was wearing an airline-style uniform, one wonders whether the owner's organisation thought they were hiring two pilots, not one.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#78 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:21 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:13 pm
I see that the AAIB have listed the person in the left seat as a passenger.

As she was wearing an airline-style uniform, one wonders whether the owner's organisation thought they were hiring two pilots, not one.
She is (sadly was) a corporate jet pilot and sim instructor and did her CPL at my local training organisation back in the early 90's. It is possible she was picked up at Stansted en route to Leicester.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#79 Post by G-CPTN » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:26 pm

Cacophonix wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:21 pm
Undried Plum wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:13 pm
I see that the AAIB have listed the person in the left seat as a passenger.

As she was wearing an airline-style uniform, one wonders whether the owner's organisation thought they were hiring two pilots, not one.
She is (sadly was) a corporate jet pilot and sim instructor and did her CPL at my local training organisation back in the early 90's. It is possible she was picked at Stansted en route to Leicester.

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AIUI, the female was the pilot's 'significant other'.

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Re: King Power Stadium Helicopter Crash

#80 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:57 pm

I understand that.

What I was wondering is whether the client's administrators who handled the contractual side of the aircraft's ops thought they were hiring two helicopter pilots, not one.

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