Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

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Ibbie
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#21 Post by Ibbie » Tue May 07, 2019 6:25 am

Anybody know why Citijet withdrew this type from use and stored them after only a short period in service?

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#22 Post by Ex-Ascot » Tue May 07, 2019 7:30 am

ExSp33db1rd wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:25 am
Sorry, posted this before I had seen boac post #15 herein, same video.
This fire was an engine fire. You do not get that from a lightning strike.
https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/621 ... es-13.html

Go to post No. 253 and view the video, there doesn't appear to be an engine fire prior to the heavy touchdown ,but then what do I know, I wasn't there.
Yes I see that now, Thank you.

OK Cape if you disagree about locked lockers how about electrified.
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#23 Post by ian16th » Tue May 07, 2019 7:34 am

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:30 am
Yes I see that now, Thank you.

OK Cape if you disagree about locked lockers how about electrified.
Do you mean a crew controlled electromagnetic lock?
If so, you will still get idiots trying to open them and blocking any and all escape routes.

If you mean made live to give an electric shock, maybe, but not too strong as the dead body would also become an obstruction.
Cynicism improves with age

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#24 Post by Alisoncc » Tue May 07, 2019 7:35 am

I have seen shredded static wicks on a wing when the aircraft was struck by lightning. Not a pretty sight, but the aircraft was still intact. Suspect Russian manufacturer may have considered them of little consequence so omitted them. Found odd similar things adrift on Ilyushins when I had the misfortune to be involved with them.
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#25 Post by Boac » Tue May 07, 2019 7:51 am

Golly exsp33!! That's a brave cross-post. Alison will be pleased :ymdevil:

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#26 Post by Alisoncc » Tue May 07, 2019 8:39 am

I is confused !! :-\
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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#27 Post by probes » Tue May 07, 2019 9:44 am

"Khlebushkin had praised the stewardesses for help in evacuating the plane. He said: ‘It was dark, the temperature was high, they were pulling people out of there. They helped people to go down the slide.’ But then he told Life online news: ‘My second point – Aeroflot airline… It consists of heartless and unprofessional people. ‘I failed to get a refund for my ticket for 40 minutes. And in the end I did not get it at all.’ ForumAvia said: ‘That fat man from the video who was angry that he did not get a refund within 40 minutes – he surely took his bag from the overhead compartment despite all the other people – because he “paid”."

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/07/overweig ... 1-9423036/
(more details on the possible lightning strike to cause emergency also here)

- now, if, say, it can be established (videos) that there was a delay before the fat guy came with his backpack, can he be sued for manslaughter? After getting his refund, of course. :(

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#28 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue May 07, 2019 10:33 am

There was a report that the aircraft had advised it was returning on fire, yet the fire crews took 2 minutes to reach it. The fire station appears to be about a mile from the crash site. Being there in two minutes with no notice would fit with what I've seen RAF fire crews manage. There was another report from the airline that it had suffered a lightning strike, and had no comms. In fact, I think I've seen every explanation offered except for aliens and 'a big boy did it and ran away'.
Looks to me like they returned for a reason that didn't generate an alert to the fire crews (I see no tenders following the jet or nearby immediately after it halts), apparently they didn't dump fuel due to being over Moscow. Then they landed heavy and fast, didn't flare enough (maybe the pilot handling used normal stick forces which were insufficient for the heavy weight), bounced, then crucially the pilot handling appears to have stuffed the nose down then tried to flare again, rather than execute a go-around. There's a sharp pitch down about a second after the aircraft bounces, which I don't think is a stall as there is enough energy left to generate some (insufficient) pitch up afterwards at the second flare. It's the hard second landing which maybe causes (I'm guessing here) the main gear to collapse (possibly weakened by the first bounce, but I think the second alone would do it), which probably punctures the wing tanks. Sparks off the sliding fuselage/engines start the fire immediately.
So, my speculated cause is incorrectly handling after the first bounce directly causes the accident, and I don't think the fire crews are to blame at all. What I would do to the guys leaving with their luggage...is the Lubyanka still open for business?

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#29 Post by probes » Tue May 07, 2019 11:27 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:33 am
What I would do to the guys leaving with their luggage...is the Lubyanka still open for business?
well, if they are dumb enough to let be caught on vid...

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#30 Post by Ibbie » Tue May 07, 2019 11:45 am

Interesting article which answers my earlier question.

https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2018/11/0 ... superjets/

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#31 Post by probes » Tue May 07, 2019 1:08 pm

The pilots were reported to have opened the side window after touching down. So they had said, reportedly. Why would they do that? Escape route? Which had made the fire worse, supposedly, extra air etc.

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#32 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue May 07, 2019 1:43 pm

probes wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:08 pm
The pilots were reported to have opened the side window after touching down. So they had said, reportedly. Why would they do that? Escape route? Which had made the fire worse, supposedly, extra air etc.
Are you implying they opened the windows before the aircraft had stopped? I suggest that is unlikely as they would have been in shock. Once opened I don't think it would add significantly more air as the doors were both open.

Probably opened while they were seated in case the cockpit door was jammed.

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#33 Post by probes » Tue May 07, 2019 2:03 pm

Well, not me, but yes, that was the implication, but I couldn't find the article any more (and it could have been just journalism anyway). But the mess seems to have been quite typical for soviet aftermath, I mean with people who have operated then.
Aeroflot plane crash: Pilot error theory probed

"Russian investigators are considering pilot error as a possible cause of the crash which killed 41 people on board an Aeroflot airliner at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport.

Crew members and passengers say the Sukhoi Superjet-100 was struck by lightning in the air, which knocked out communications with ground control.

But the high-speed landing of a fuel-laden jet was not normal practice.

Meanwhile a video reveals officials joking while watching the burning jet.

It is not clear who the unidentified Russian officials are, in the clip broadcast on Twitter.

A statement from the Sheremetyevo airport management said the officials belonged neither to the airport company - called AO MASH - nor to Aeroflot.

The statement demands punishment for the officials in the clip, accusing them of breaching professional ethics.

Amid laughter one of them is heard saying "it landed all right, with a little flame" while the TV monitor shows the jet engulfed in an inferno."

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#34 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue May 07, 2019 5:11 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 pm
Anyone goes for a suitcase when escaping a flight I'm on is going to be persuaded of the error of their ways in very short order. The John Prescott approach.
I quoted you just to respond to the issue: arguably we are smarter than the average pax, however we are still a very small minority of air travellers. For that reason I feel the authorities need to redesign the evacuation trials. In other words pax taking their bags with them should be included on the trial much like obese or elderly ones.

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#35 Post by G-CPTN » Tue May 07, 2019 5:20 pm

I read a report today that a member of cabin crew perished while unsuccessfully trying to open a rear escape door.
How can that be?

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#36 Post by Undried Plum » Tue May 07, 2019 5:29 pm

And at least 10% of 'em should be plied with strong drink for a couple of hours before the trial evac!

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#37 Post by Undried Plum » Tue May 07, 2019 5:30 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:11 pm
I feel the authorities need to redesign the evacuation trials. In other words pax taking their bags with them should be included on the trial much like obese or elderly ones.

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#38 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue May 07, 2019 6:35 pm

G-CPTN wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:20 pm
I read a report today that a member of cabin crew perished while unsuccessfully trying to open a rear escape door.
How can that be?
Not quite. He might have tried but apparently died helping pax to evacuate.

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#39 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue May 07, 2019 7:42 pm

Evacuation in a situation like this is usually in the wrong order for saving lives. I met a cadet officer (civilian teacher) on a Summer Camp who had been on the coach crash near Wittering about 15 years ago. The coach broke down, pulled onto the hard shoulder, and was then rear-ended by an 18 wheeler two minutes later. They were debussing front seats first and about halfway done. One cadet at the back died, and one was still in hospital 5 years later (likely forever). What happened is the biggest risk, so I switched to insisting on debussing back row first. I had them doing it as a matter of routine, so it would be automatic in a real threat situation. This works with public school kids, and probably the military too, but likely wouldn't with any other group*, especially with flames already licking around the aircraft. I suspect lives could have been saved if the pax were capable of being unloaded threat end first, maybe all of them.

*although Canadians do leave aeroplanes in perfect order without any steward input, in my experience. They would just need tell which end to start with.

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Re: Sukhoi Superjet in flames in Sheremetyevo

#40 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue May 07, 2019 7:56 pm

UP respect for the addition of the new group - it present some interesting issues.

F3WMB and G-CPTN , I thought that a basic control before opening an aircraft door is to make sure there is no fire outside.

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