The German SS used extra encryption in WW2. They'd supply an encrypted message to the Enigma operator and that would be encoded and sent using the machine. So even if the Bletchley people had the correct settings it still wouldn't look like a message. What tipped them off was, as is often the case, a mistake on the German side. A supplied message had a digit '1' in it, and an Enigma machine is letters only. The operator, instead of flagging the issue, used his initiative and typed "eins", which was spotted by someone in the UK who guessed what had happened and took the text for further decryption and cracked it.TheGreenGoblin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:14 amReally good synopsis of the pro's of the system and, as you say, the message can be further encoded using 128 or, better, AES 256 bit encryption (for example) to slow the would be eavesdropper down some more.boing wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:43 amThe neat thing about a numbers broadcast is that 99.9% of its transmissions can be total garbage with the "one in a thousand" being useful. This means that a rival decryption facility has to decode the whole thousand transmissions to find the one that may be interesting and then they must break the second level of code to read the contents. The actual intended receiving party can use a "one time pad" as simple as a yesterday's local newspaper for decoding.
The system is cheap to operate requiring basically one operator and a transmitter and it creates its own obfuscation while an unintended receiving party needs to make a considerable effort to decode the signals.
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Numbers Broadcast
Re: Numbers Broadcast
- G~Man
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
From many years ago on Nimrods........
Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance.
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
I am not surprised. You cannot put a binary code in front of an operator not to have him/her to want to decode it. Sorry it was so obvious and shame on me that I hadn't double encoded it.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
“There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t”.
Cynicism improves with age
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
We understand the Eye in the Sky...
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
-
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
Better still, use direct sequence spread spectrum and a nice high chip rate to "smear" your signal over a range of frequencies so that it drops down so low in amplitude that you cannot find it unless you know that it's there.TheGreenGoblin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:14 amReally good synopsis of the pro's of the system and, as you say, the message can be further encoded using 128 or, better, AES 256 bit encryption (for example) to slow the would be eavesdropper down some more.
AES Encryption Standard - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance ... n_Standard
Use phase shifting, frequency hopping etc. and the would-be decoders task has just got a lot more difficult...
Signals that look like natural static or noise are great places to hide in plain sight... faux entropy being the best disguise....
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
I've been wondering when our resident expert would enter the debate!
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
Who's to say that the real stuff isn't there, with the numbers meaningless now technology has given better ways?
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
I would think that a numbers station operating on simple HF is still a good usable option.
The wide geographic area covered by HF means that the signal cannot be observed as being directed to one location meaning the receiver location is not compromised.
The reception equipment does not need to be complicated, a simple Ham radio purchased through the internet of bought privately on Cra*g's List may be adequate.
A publication close to the receiver such as a local newspaper can be used as a one time pad meaning the receiver does not need to handle compromising documents that need to be re-issued periodically or to possess incriminating equipment.
A given numbers transmission can be used to address multiple receivers simultaneously.
The transmission can be repeated at leisure to assist in error free reception, to allow error correction or to overcome the vagaries of HF propagation.
The problem with numbers broadcasts is verification of reception to the sender making it unreliable for coordinating time-sensitive complex operations. This problem can be solved if days are available but not in a couple of hours without risking compromising receiver location.
"Les Sanglots longs des violons de l'Automne... blessent mon coeur d'une langueur monotone"
.
The wide geographic area covered by HF means that the signal cannot be observed as being directed to one location meaning the receiver location is not compromised.
The reception equipment does not need to be complicated, a simple Ham radio purchased through the internet of bought privately on Cra*g's List may be adequate.
A publication close to the receiver such as a local newspaper can be used as a one time pad meaning the receiver does not need to handle compromising documents that need to be re-issued periodically or to possess incriminating equipment.
A given numbers transmission can be used to address multiple receivers simultaneously.
The transmission can be repeated at leisure to assist in error free reception, to allow error correction or to overcome the vagaries of HF propagation.
The problem with numbers broadcasts is verification of reception to the sender making it unreliable for coordinating time-sensitive complex operations. This problem can be solved if days are available but not in a couple of hours without risking compromising receiver location.
"Les Sanglots longs des violons de l'Automne... blessent mon coeur d'une langueur monotone"
.
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
+1
As for Paul Verlaine's poetry...
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
- boing
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
I suppose "Once more in to the breech dear friends..." would have been a bit to obvious and it would have upset the French.
.
.
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.
- ian16th
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
Wasn't de Gaulle upset because he wasn't in on the secret?
Cynicism improves with age
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Numbers Broadcast
I am not sure although I suspect he spent a lot of his here in the UK in an upset state...
What De Gaulle Won On D Day...
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."