Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

General Chit Chat
Message
Author
User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5151
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 77

Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#1 Post by FD2 » Sun May 09, 2021 10:04 pm

Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

One of Scotland’s most historic ocean liners, RMS Queen Mary, is said to be in urgent need of millions of pounds worth of urgent repairs, with the future of the ailing ship now in doubt.


When I lived in Lee on Solent as a sprog we used to watch these wonderful ships sailing in and out of Southampton along with their faster and more modern American rivals. They had to travel around the eastern end of the Isle of Wight and up the Solent - the other end past the Needles was too restricted. On my only visit to Southampton Docks we were shipping my grandmother off to move back to Canada and not far away the Queen Mary was berthing from New York in a strong wind. Hawser after hawser was snapped until the tugs got her steady enough to secure her safely. That's a sight I've never forgotten.

The Queen Elizabeth was burned and sank off Hong Kong but at least I could set eyes on the Queen Mary again when we visited Los Angeles back in the 1980s. I have wondered from time to time how it could sit there for so long without seemingly undergoing any heavy maintenance and now the answer seems clear - it was gently rotting away all the time. I suspect that unless any serious dosh can be found for repairs or made from her she will be towed away and reduced to razor blades before long.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/192 ... ueen-mary/
Queen Mary.jpg
Queen_Mary_New_York.jpg
Queen_Mary_New_York.jpg (7.79 KiB) Viewed 958 times
I like the 'Scotland's most historic ocean liners' - she was built by John Brown on the Clyde so obviously belongs to Scotland rather than Cunard or even Great Britain before she was sold off. :-?

User avatar
tango15
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2464
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:43 pm
Location: East Midlands
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#2 Post by tango15 » Sun May 09, 2021 10:10 pm

Built on the Clyde and registered in Liverpool. I went on her in the 80s, too. I had no idea that she was not being looked after. I doubt the cousins will bother too much about her - she's not American, you see.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5151
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 77

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#3 Post by FD2 » Sun May 09, 2021 10:18 pm

Good point om15.

Something for Ginge to do in his spare time? :x ;)))

PHXPhlyer
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8368
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:56 pm
Location: PHX
Gender:
Age: 69

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#4 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sun May 09, 2021 10:20 pm

My parents came to visit me while I was on break from flight school it the late 80's.
I took them around the Southwest, Sedona and The Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, and Southern California. Hollywood, Beverly Hills, etc.
I took them to Long Beach because I wanted to see The Spruce Goose. They had a package tour that included both The Spruce Goose and The Queen Mary.
While we were on The Queen Mary my father seemed a little "off". He proceeded to explain to my mother and me that a flood of memories was coming back to him. Turns out that he had been shipped out to England during WW II and was on The Queen Elisabeth, QM's sister ship. Even though it had been converted into a troop ship it was still very impressive, especially compared to the Liberty Ship that brought him home after the war.

PP

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#5 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon May 10, 2021 4:49 am

tango15 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:10 pm
Built on the Clyde and registered in Liverpool. I went on her in the 80s, too. I had no idea that she was not being looked after. I doubt the cousins will bother too much about her - she's not American, you see.
No American cousins here, just German and Norwegian ones, but it is a bit remiss, not to say shortsighted, of the Californians (at least), whose commitment to aviation nostalgia and aircraft restoration (for example) is often first class, to allow this iconic ship (i.e. the original RMS Queen Mary) and tourist landmark, to go to wrack and ruin, but as big talented corporations such as Disney struggled to make a profit out of her, and the lack of sentiment in big business being what it is, I suspect her days are numbered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Queen ... television.
In 2017 a report on the ship's condition was issued. The report noted that not only the hull but also the supports for a raised exhibition area within the ship were corroding and that the ship's deteriorating condition left areas such as the engine room vulnerable to flooding. Repairs were estimated at close to $300 million. In November 2016 the City of Long Beach had put $23 million toward addressing Queen Mary's most vital repairs. John Keisler, economic and property development director for Long Beach, said, "We have a timeline in which the engineers believe they can complete those immediate projects. These are major challenges we can only address over time; it can't all be done at once." Political leaders in Scotland, birthplace of Queen Mary, called for the then UK Prime Minister Theresa May to pressure the American government to fund a full repair of the liner in 2017.

In August 2019, Edward Pribonic, the engineer responsible for inspecting Queen Mary on behalf of the City of Long Beach, issued a report stating that the ship was in the worst condition he had seen in his 25 years on the job. Pribonic stated that the neglect of Queen Mary had grown worse under the management of Urban Commons, and concluded that "without an immediate and very significant infusion of manpower and money, the condition of the ship will likely soon be unsalvageable.” Incidents of recent neglect include the flooding of the Grand Ballroom with sewage after a pipe which was flimsily patched with duct tape burst, significant amounts of standing water in the ship's bilge, and recently applied paint on the ship's funnels already peeling because of the poor way in which it was applied. The pessimistic conclusion of Pribonic was disputed by city officials, who called the warnings "hyperbolic" and pointed to the "significant" work that has already been undertaken towards repairing Queen Mary.

The $23 million apportioned for repairs ran out in 2018, with 19 out of the 27 urgent projects identified by a 2015 marine survey completed as of September 2019. There were significant cost overruns overall, with the cost of fire safety repairs skyrocketing from the original estimate of $200,000 to $5.29 million. Two of the remaining eight issues identified in 2015 are considered "critical" - this includes the removal of the ship's lifeboats, which have rotted and are in danger of collapsing.

In October 2019, the City of Long Beach warned Urban Commons that the company was failing to uphold its commitment to maintain and repair Queen Mary and that it was accordingly in danger of defaulting on its 66-year lease agreement. Urban Commons responded with an updated plan for repairs, including the removal of the lifeboats at a cost of between $5 and $7 million, and new paint work. In December it was announced that the City was reviewing the finances of Urban Commons to determine whether the City of Long Beach had "received all revenues owed."
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5151
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 77

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#6 Post by FD2 » Mon May 10, 2021 4:57 am

Many thousands of troops were carried all around the world in Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth. I've just read that the Queen Mary holds the record at 15,740 in one trip. I'm not surprised it brought back some sad memories for your father, pp.

They both ended up in New York along with the French liner Normandie at the start of the War. Normandie was destroyed by fire, thought to have been started deliberately by German sympathisers. The other two were painted Navy grey and started being used as troopships, after all the nice fittings had been removed(!)

Their cruising speed of up to 28 knots meant that they were virtually safe from U-boat attack and Churchill made several trips to the States and back in them. They were also under orders not to stop for any reason and that was apparent when a cruiser was cut in half and a ship was only later sent back to look for survivors.
RMS_Queen_Mary_20Jun1945_NewYork.jpeg
RMS_Queen_Mary_20Jun1945_NewYork.jpeg (11.88 KiB) Viewed 915 times

PHXPhlyer
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8368
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:56 pm
Location: PHX
Gender:
Age: 69

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#7 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon May 10, 2021 5:44 am

The Queen Mary was also a floating hotel and my airline used it as a layover hotel for Long Beach overnights.
Only had a couple of LGB overnights, always at the short hotels.
I heard that the QM layover was OK once for the novelty, but realistically, it wasn't that great as the staterooms were relatively small.

PP

Hydromet
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4410
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:55 am
Location: SE Oz
Gender:

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#8 Post by Hydromet » Mon May 10, 2021 7:41 am

I was told at school that GIs on the QM were ordered to break their coke bottles before throwing them overboard, as if they floated, there would be so many that they would leave a trail that could be followed. True? Apocryphal?

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 81

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#9 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon May 10, 2021 8:53 am

Hydromet, no point. If you were in her wake there was no way of catching her. I don't imagine that even at 28 kts she would have steered a straight course.

At 28 kts I think she would have been going as fast, if not faster, than contemporary torpedoes. Her torpedo danger zone would have been very narrow on her bow.

I don't know the speed of WW2 submarine torpedoes, but in 1970s we stopped using a Mk 30 airlaunched torpedo whose top speed was only 18 kts. The Mk 44 was faster at 30 kts.

User avatar
tango15
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2464
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:43 pm
Location: East Midlands
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#10 Post by tango15 » Mon May 10, 2021 9:23 am

Hmmm, one can't help wondering whether there will be a fire on board the RMS. That seems the usual way of dealing with these things when there's no money available. I remember the very sad sight of Queen Elizabeth in Hong Kong harbour. I sincerely hope that The Queen Mary doesn't end up the same way.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13148
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#11 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon May 10, 2021 11:48 am

And then we have. No wonder Blair never got a KGB.

https://www.tatler.com/article/life-on- ... -britannia
Attachments
HMY.jpg
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#12 Post by ian16th » Mon May 10, 2021 12:12 pm

Is at an RNLI ensign?
Cynicism improves with age

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 81

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#13 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon May 10, 2021 12:19 pm

Admirals command pennant. Looks like that of a Rear Admiral (equivalent to AVM or 2*)
"The flag of an Admiral is to be flown at the main whilst other Flag Officers are to fly their flags at the fore"
That is on the foremast.
I believe the captain of the royal yacht was a commodore, so there was always at least a commodore's broad pennant at the fore mast. When a member of the royal family was on board the jack and ensign were flown night and day, whether in port or at sea. In addition the appropriate flags were flown at the mastheads. There were some interesting combinations when the Queen visited a Commonwealth country, or when the senior member of the royal family was someone other than the Queen.
From 1962 to 1995 the captain was a rear admiral.

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#14 Post by ian16th » Mon May 10, 2021 12:25 pm

Thank you!

The Kipper Fleet have their uses!
Cynicism improves with age

Rossian
Capt
Capt
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:27 pm
Location: Morayshire Scotland
Gender:
Age: 82

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#15 Post by Rossian » Mon May 10, 2021 2:44 pm

Once during a CPX in the mountain hole at Naples I worked for a splendid,lovely man who had been the Captain on Britannia. In the small dark hours a very smart US army lieutenant presented himself, saluted very smartly to the captain.
"What can I do for you young man?"
"I'm afraid I have to report a serious comms breach of security sir"
"Really! Really?? What on earth could my chaps have done, they are very experienced you know?"
"It's not your chaps, sir, it's you personally"
"Oh dear, how do you know it was me, personally??"
"Sir you are the ONLY officer in this entire headquarters who regularly uses the phrase, 'since the old Queen died' "
"Oh dear again, I suppose that is what you might call a fair cop, are you going to clap me in irons and drag me away to the brig?"
As we all collapsed in laughter the young man did crack a smile.

The Ancient Mariner

User avatar
G~Man
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: California on a fire or a sailboat somewhere.
Gender:
Age: 60

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#16 Post by G~Man » Mon May 10, 2021 4:46 pm

I just saw her yesterday, you can see her exhaust stack in the first pic taken Friday and the second pic I took 10 days ago:
IMG_5898.JPG
From a sailboat
13.JPG
B-) Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance. B-)

G-CPTN
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7645
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Location: Tynedale
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#17 Post by G-CPTN » Mon May 10, 2021 5:01 pm

On my first school trip, we went camping to the Isle of Wight, and on the way there took a boat trip around Southampton Water, including getting up close to the Queen Mary - it seemed like we could almost touch it but the bow towered way above our small boat.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13148
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#18 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu May 13, 2021 3:16 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:19 pm
Admirals command pennant. Looks like that of a Rear Admiral (equivalent to AVM or 2*)
"The flag of an Admiral is to be flown at the main whilst other Flag Officers are to fly their flags at the fore"
That is on the foremast.
I believe the captain of the royal yacht was a commodore, so there was always at least a commodore's broad pennant at the fore mast. When a member of the royal family was on board the jack and ensign were flown night and day, whether in port or at sea. In addition the appropriate flags were flown at the mastheads. There were some interesting combinations when the Queen visited a Commonwealth country, or when the senior member of the royal family was someone other than the Queen.
From 1962 to 1995 the captain was a Rear Admiral.
There was a Commodore and a Captain. In latter years the Commodore was a Rear Admiral. Can't remember what the Captain was. The Captain was in charge of the yacht. The Commodore acted as an ADC. The Captain of The Queen's Flight when on board the aircraft had no say over the operation of it. The Captain of the aircraft was in charge.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

User avatar
om15
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7756
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Dorset
Age: 71

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#19 Post by om15 » Thu May 13, 2021 5:56 pm

My mother passed away in LA in 1978 where she lived, she was receiving cancer treatment in a clinic in Tijuana up to the last minute, on her last day we arranged a flight in a medical piston twin back up to Van Nuys, on learning that she was English the pilot did a slow 360 around the Queen Mary so Mum could have a last look, she passed away in Van Nuys hospital a couple of hours later.

It would be sad to see her scrapped, I would have thought that she had earned enough dough as a tourist attraction to pay for her upkeep.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13148
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Fears over future of historic liner RMS Queen Mary

#20 Post by Ex-Ascot » Fri May 14, 2021 6:18 am

I thought that they just did tours but see it is much more than that. The officer on the home page is not very realistic. How many senior NR officers did they have in it's heyday? Erm. [-X

https://www.queenmary.com/tours/tours-exhibits/
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

Post Reply