Circular runways
Circular runways
I am interested to know what those of you who sit in the pointy end think of this idea. Clearly it has some merit, but is it sound enough to fly, if you'll pardon the pun.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-39284294
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-39284294
- ian16th
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 10029
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
- Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
- Gender:
- Age: 87
Re: Circular runways
Knowing more about navaids than flying the beasts, I am very aware that just about everything, such as glide paths, is designed to work in straight lines.
So I'd say it was a big no-no.
But if anyone should want to try, might I suggest the the Fleet Air Arm start with it, after all didn't they invent the curved approach during WWII?
So I'd say it was a big no-no.
But if anyone should want to try, might I suggest the the Fleet Air Arm start with it, after all didn't they invent the curved approach during WWII?
Cynicism improves with age
- Cpt_Pugwash
- Capt
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:46 pm
- Location: On the edge of Ciderspace
Re: Circular runways
Surely landing onto a moving conveyor belt would be easier?
Re: Circular runways
Something like a mobius strip hanging from a sky hook in space.
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.
Sent from my PDP11/05 running RSX-11D via an ASR33 (TTY)
Sent from my PDP11/05 running RSX-11D via an ASR33 (TTY)
- ian16th
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 10029
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
- Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
- Gender:
- Age: 87
Re: Circular runways
Alisoncc wrote:Something like a mobius strip hanging from a sky hook in space.
Didn't the Americans try the Skyhook idea with a baby jet and a B-52?
Cynicism improves with age
- ExSp33db1rd
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:51 am
- Location: Lesser Antipode
- Gender:
- Age: 89
Re: Circular runways
Look forward to the increase in runway excursions - off the outside edge !
Plenty of opportunity for pod-scrapes, too - has the guy no idea how an aircraft flies a circular path ?
Some Mothers Do 'ave 'em.
Plenty of opportunity for pod-scrapes, too - has the guy no idea how an aircraft flies a circular path ?
Some Mothers Do 'ave 'em.
- unifoxos
- Capt
- Posts: 960
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:36 am
- Location: Twycross Zoo, or thereabouts
- Gender:
- Age: 78
Re: Circular runways
If the track is banked so that there is no lateral force on the gear, the faster the a/c goes the greater the centrifugal force holding it down - so it has to go faster - so the force goes up ....
Sent from my tatty old Windoze PC.
- ExSp33db1rd
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:51 am
- Location: Lesser Antipode
- Gender:
- Age: 89
Re: Circular runways
Ain't science wonderful ?
- ian16th
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 10029
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
- Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
- Gender:
- Age: 87
Re: Circular runways
unifoxos wrote:If the track is banked so that there is no lateral force on the gear, the faster the a/c goes the greater the centrifugal force holding it down - so it has to go faster - so the force goes up ....
Wot about the lifting effect of those things sticking out of the sides, I think that they are called 'wings'?
Cynicism improves with age
Re: Circular runways
As we are getting closer to 1/4, may I chip in the need for a concave surface to allow for a balance of forces with increasing speeds? Will we finish up with a sort of 'Wall of death' track for the heavies?
Re: Circular runways
...Having had only a brief look at the Physics equations it seems theoretically viable to a point, but I suspect very heavy reliance on advanced computerization will be needed on the part of the aircraft. These algorithms(?) as yet do not exist - and that's just for normal ops. EO/Rejected case is whole different ball game.
- unifoxos
- Capt
- Posts: 960
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:36 am
- Location: Twycross Zoo, or thereabouts
- Gender:
- Age: 78
Re: Circular runways
Wot about the lifting effect of those things sticking out of the sides, I think that they are called 'wings'?
If the runway was flat there would be incredible lateral force on the gear as you approach take-off speed, and as soon as this is achieved the a/c will suddenly spring sideways. I remember having the pleasure of being driven round the test track at MIRA by Norman Dewis when the E-type Jaguar forst came out. On the banked track at 150 mph I reckon I was getting about 2G. Can the gear take this sort of force?
If not then what BOAC just said applies, but the faster you go the more G you get and the more lift you require unless you let the a/c fly off the top of the bowl. Be better on a conveyor belt.
If the runway was flat there would be incredible lateral force on the gear as you approach take-off speed, and as soon as this is achieved the a/c will suddenly spring sideways. I remember having the pleasure of being driven round the test track at MIRA by Norman Dewis when the E-type Jaguar forst came out. On the banked track at 150 mph I reckon I was getting about 2G. Can the gear take this sort of force?
If not then what BOAC just said applies, but the faster you go the more G you get and the more lift you require unless you let the a/c fly off the top of the bowl. Be better on a conveyor belt.
Sent from my tatty old Windoze PC.
- OFSO
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 18718
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
- Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
- Gender:
- Age: 80
Re: Circular runways
If the runway was flat there would be incredible lateral force on the gear as you approach take-off speed, and as soon as this is achieved the a/c will suddenly spring sideways.
The answer to this is that the runway should be built like the old 'wall of death' at fairgrounds, i.e. a circular runway sloping up into a drum configuration. As the aircraft speeded up they would rise up the interior sidewall until when V whatever was reached they could pop out of the top. This would also contain engine noise and provide passengers with an interesting high G experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZtnIi7W0g
The answer to this is that the runway should be built like the old 'wall of death' at fairgrounds, i.e. a circular runway sloping up into a drum configuration. As the aircraft speeded up they would rise up the interior sidewall until when V whatever was reached they could pop out of the top. This would also contain engine noise and provide passengers with an interesting high G experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZtnIi7W0g
Re: Circular runways
Good thinking, OFSO................where DID you get that idea?
- unifoxos
- Capt
- Posts: 960
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:36 am
- Location: Twycross Zoo, or thereabouts
- Gender:
- Age: 78
Re: Circular runways
Good thinking, OFSO................where DID you get that idea?
Presumably not from your or my posts. I guess we must BOTH be on his ignore list.
Presumably not from your or my posts. I guess we must BOTH be on his ignore list.
Sent from my tatty old Windoze PC.
- OFSO
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 18718
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
- Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
- Gender:
- Age: 80
Re: Circular runways
Frankly you chaps I've never understood why aircraft flying east-west ever need to travel anywhere. Surely all they need to do is go up and hang around for a bit: wait for the earth's rotation to bring their destination right underneath them and then zoom down and land on it.
- unifoxos
- Capt
- Posts: 960
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:36 am
- Location: Twycross Zoo, or thereabouts
- Gender:
- Age: 78
Re: Circular runways
Yes, but it's quicker to use power - the aircraft speed adds to the earth's rotation making the journey time shorter. You have to use a lot more power going the other way, though to counteract the effect.
Sent from my tatty old Windoze PC.
- OFSO
- Chief Pilot
- Posts: 18718
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
- Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
- Gender:
- Age: 80
Re: Circular runways
Since the earth is just a huge electric motor, wouldn't coils instead of wings provide lift and propulsion ? I seem to remember Dan Dare's personal spaceship the "Anastasia" had something like that.
Re: Circular runways
The nutter who started this latest round of madness, Henk Hesselink, has said this:
"Obviously, as we are making a turn during the landing, the ILS (Instrument Landing System) will not function. But we may be able to use an ILS-system for part of the approach phase, the first part is still straight-in.
Either we put a simple form of ILS on each direction of the runway, or we can install a movable ILS-system that will move around the runway, for example on a rail-track . It is a bit far-fetched, I know."
At least he knows. I suspect an overdose of 'Wacky Bakky'?
"Obviously, as we are making a turn during the landing, the ILS (Instrument Landing System) will not function. But we may be able to use an ILS-system for part of the approach phase, the first part is still straight-in.
Either we put a simple form of ILS on each direction of the runway, or we can install a movable ILS-system that will move around the runway, for example on a rail-track . It is a bit far-fetched, I know."
At least he knows. I suspect an overdose of 'Wacky Bakky'?