Trump and Iran.

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John Hill
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Trump and Iran.

#1 Post by John Hill » Wed May 15, 2019 5:56 am

Is Trump going to be able to stoke up a war with Iran?
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Re: Trump and Iran.

#2 Post by AtomKraft » Wed May 15, 2019 7:31 am

Who knows, but he's going to try his best...

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#3 Post by John Hill » Wed May 15, 2019 7:36 am

Join the queue to enlist in the Coalition of the Willing!
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Re: Trump and Iran.

#4 Post by Fliegenmong » Wed May 15, 2019 10:14 am

Johnny Bolton is back....and he's alreasaid Bom Iran before his appointment....so the question is really, if it happens....just how long shall the US be bogged down in Iran?

Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan all seemed to take forever to get out of....16 years in Iraq?...and then we alll have to watch that never ending list of (mostly black) young US members of the military at the end of the Jim Lehrer News Hour.

Then you gotta think how ISIS formed out of the power vacuum left in IRAQ, and then what for IRAN....I may be dead before the US get themselves out of it....maybe best to keep to Boltons other stated objective Venezuela....but there be a bit of Russian military there right now...

A gas / oil pipeline from IRAN to Russia would seriously scare the bejesus outta the US I think....so maybe...
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Re: Trump and Iran.

#5 Post by 1DC » Wed May 15, 2019 3:49 pm

I expect the Israelis are calling the shots on this one so maybe Trumpy is just waiting for orders..

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#6 Post by Rwy in Sight » Wed May 15, 2019 7:56 pm

I have the feeling that current Iranian regime is the best for Israel given that the next one might be worst than the current one.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#7 Post by Stoneboat » Fri May 17, 2019 12:22 pm

Patrick Buchanan sums it up pretty succinctly.

Taki's Magazine: Who Wants This War With iran?

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#8 Post by BenThere » Fri May 17, 2019 4:07 pm

I'm guessing that some intelligence revealed a significant threat and generated a response from the US. I'm not aware of any US provocation, only response to the threat.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#9 Post by Undried Plum » Fri May 17, 2019 4:19 pm

BenThere wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:07 pm
I'm not aware of any US provocation
Oh good grief!

only response to the threat.
What threat?

Iran is a democracy. Murricanes really shouldn't be afraid of democracy. They should try it some time. It's an imperfect but quite benign form of government.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#10 Post by John Hill » Fri May 17, 2019 7:47 pm

BenThere wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:07 pm
I'm not aware of any US provocation...
Apart from some minor irritations such as strangling their economy.
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Re: Trump and Iran.

#11 Post by BenThere » Sat May 18, 2019 1:58 am

You'd think Iran's dictator would figure out how much easier it would be to live in peace with the rest of the world. But the regime is militaristic and bent on hegemony in the region.

I would just as soon the US just bugged out of the region and park its carrier off Tel Aviv. The Iranians will overthrow the Mullahs when the time comes on their own. The US won't need to do anything.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#12 Post by AtomKraft » Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 am

One has to chuckle at an American accusing another country of being 'militaristic'.
So it's true than the US is an irony free zone...

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#13 Post by Fliegenmong » Sat May 18, 2019 7:04 am

Reckon that murderous MBS chap in Saudia Arabia telling the US what it (Saudia) want??
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Re: Trump and Iran.

#14 Post by Fliegenmong » Sat May 18, 2019 7:17 am

Reckon that murderous MBS chap in Saudia Arabia telling the US what it (Saudia) want??
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Re: Trump and Iran.

#15 Post by Undried Plum » Sat May 18, 2019 11:18 am

BenThere wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:58 am
You'd think Iran's dictator Chump would figure out how much easier it would be to live in peace with the rest of the world. But the [Chump] regime is militaristic and bent on hegemony in the region.
Iran had a functioning democracy and a democratically elected Prime Minister (Mossadeq) until a joint conspiracy between the CIA and SIS in 1953 trashed Iran's democracy and imposed the AmericoBritish puppet Shah.

The CIA had a major torture centre in Iran throughout all of Jimmy Carter's presidency. They, or rather their puppets, didn't use what nowadays is euphemistically called "extraordinary rendition". They tortured, raped and murdered thousands of democrats "in-country". They'd been trained by the CIA at the School of the Americas.

Ben, you really should go and visit the museum in Tehran where they display thousands of pages of carefully restored documents which had been shredded in what they now call the "nest of spies". The CIA fingered thousands of ordinary Iranians who were guilty of nothing more than craving democracy. They were abducted, raped and tortured to death by American-trained torturers who'd learned their trade in the aptly named "School of the Americas".

As for a dictatorship in Iran, that was dismantled in 1979 and will never be re-assembled unless the US is successful in destroying Iran's vibrant and successful democracy.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#16 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat May 18, 2019 12:47 pm

It is worth pointing out that firstly, Iran is a theocracy, not a democracy, as a study of who has the right to make appointments shows. For example, the Guardian Council is half appointed directly by the Supreme Leader (who holds office for life), and half elected from a list chosen by the Chief Justice, who is himself appointed by the Supreme Leader. If that's democracy, I'm a banana ;))) Secondly, the coup in 1953 was triggered by the threat by the Prime Minister to nationalize the foreign oil companies, in particular the British. In practical terms, nationalization is a posh word for theft. As to whether the original contracts with the foreign companies amounted to theft from Iran is another question, but the British push for regime change can hardly be surprising.
Right now, Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. Since they are indirectly attempting to change regimes in at least 6 other countries, they can again hardly be surprised if other nations try to do it back to them.
And asking the question "Who started it?" in the Middle East is worse than pointless.

Personally, I think one could make reasonable cases to preserve or overturn every single national Government within a thousand miles of the Persian Gulf, either morally or under International Law. I couldn't give a flying f#ck about any of them. I would paraphrase Bismarck's comment about the Pomeranian Grenadier on the action we should take.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#17 Post by Undried Plum » Sat May 18, 2019 3:32 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:47 pm
Iran is a theocracy, not a democracy

The two forms of governance are not at all mutually exclusive. It's not an And/Or thing.

Iran is both a theocracy AND a democracy.

It's not the only country to be that way. Near neighbours Israel and Pakistan both have a form of government which is both theocratic and democratic.

To a limited extent, Britain has both of those characteristics.

No Parliamentary sitting ever starts without Christian prayers. The Head of State is invested with that office by the most senior Bishop of the Church of England. The Archbishops all have automatic right to take up a seat in the House of Lords (for life, incidentally) and almost all of them do.

The last King to be deposed was done so at the instigation of the then Archbishop of Canterbury, who also anointed his own choice of King subsequently.

That's not ancient History. It involved the present Head of State's uncle and father, respectively.

The US is not a democracy, but it is a theocracy.

No US president, or aspirant president, would ever dare to make a major speech without the requisite religious incantation at the end, such "God bless you" or "God bless America" or some combination thereof. No federal banknote is ever printed without a comparable theocratic invocation.

It's certainly not a democracy, but it's quite certainly a theocracy.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#18 Post by Undried Plum » Sat May 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:47 pm
Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism.
Second or third largest, maybe, but certainly not the largest.

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#19 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat May 18, 2019 5:17 pm

My view is that countries are one form of Government or the other. I think that none of the countries you've listed are democracies. The US is a republic for a start. The UK is a constitutional monarchy without a written constitution, which means it's as big a mess as one would expect from the inherent contradiction. Any Archbish of C throwing his weight around today is going to come a cropper very sharpish, whereas anyone trying to get a democratic decision that the theocrats in Iran disagree with is going to find the opposite, in terms of who holds the power. What I am finding interesting is the gradual realisation by many citizens around the world that they are not living in the democracy they are told they are, and that it now matters. Brexit would be an example. I'm rather hoping more than a few populations are going to do something about that. Certainly, things are changing where I am.

I agree there are a couple of other terrorist sponsor nations in the same ballpark, in terms of funding. Do you think the US is one and Saudi Arabia the other?

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Re: Trump and Iran.

#20 Post by Undried Plum » Sat May 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:47 pm
the Supreme Leader (who holds office for life), and half elected from a list chosen by the Chief Justice, who is himself appointed by the Supreme Leader. If that's democracy, I'm a banana ;)))
You'll, no doubt, be delighted to discover that:- that at least 34% of your own genes, along with those of the rest of us are car key carrying apes, are exactly that: those of a banana.

No relation to any of the German breeding bitches of course, but I mention those facts as a matter of fact as food for discourse rather than for some suggestion of social intercourse with the aforementioned Germans on this forum.

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