More Boeing Bad News

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#221 Post by fin » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:47 pm

Now that the payout to the exiting CEO of Boeing has been announced, I wonder whether it is still subject to seizure in the course of a huge series of judgements against the company due to pending litigation.
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#222 Post by ian16th » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:53 am

Wine improves with age
I improve with wine :YMPARTY:

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More cancellations than orders

#223 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:37 pm

No ordinary company should be allowed to survive having an entire year with more cancellations than orders.

Can you imagine a restaurant company or an airline surviving a whole year with more cancellations than bookings?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#224 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:24 pm

There was a 90 percent drop in orders for 737 models during the year,
Just how do they expect orders to recover once the Max is recertified?

The SLF will have short memories but how about the airlines?
Pan Am went broke partly because, from Juan Trippe down to its check-in agents, it had become so arrogant that the airline abused its customers. ... Pan American Flight 914 took off in 1955 but landed after 37 years. .

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Re: More cancellations than orders

#225 Post by ribrash » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:45 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:37 pm
No ordinary company should be allowed to survive having an entire year with more cancellations than orders.

Can you imagine a restaurant company or an airline surviving a whole year with more cancellations than bookings?
Jamie fat bloke did.
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#226 Post by Boac » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:48 pm

According to CNBC, Southwest are not planning to run the Max now until June at the earliest.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#227 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:50 pm

Same for American, I think.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#228 Post by llondel » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:02 pm

I'm not planning on getting on one for quite some time after that if I can help it.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#229 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:26 pm

Only flights we have planned are BA in April.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#230 Post by Slasher » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:30 am

llondel wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:02 pm
I'm not planning on getting on one for quite some time after that if I can help it.
I think you will be quite safe with American pilots up front ‘del. Besides they’ll’ve had the sh!t trained out of ‘em. IIRC prior to the Indo and Ethi prangs there were 4 instances of MCAS in the States and no one nose-dived into nothin’. Treated as a stab runaway.

Sources (for Admin only):
- 5000h PIC B737-200/400 (mainly -400).
- Differences course -800 (Boeing Training Facility BNE 2003).
- talking with 737 destructors - Training Facility HKG (2019/20).

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#231 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:00 am

I agree, Runaway Stabiliser drill was regularly practised, don't matter what caused it, mechanical, electrical, digital device or whatever,if them big wheels start turning uncommanded - go for it, take control of YOUR aeroplane and ask questions afterwards.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#232 Post by Rwy in Sight » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:04 am

Slasher wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:30 am
llondel wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:02 pm
I'm not planning on getting on one for quite some time after that if I can help it.
I think you will be quite safe with American pilots up front ‘del. Besides they’ll’ve had the sh!t trained out of ‘em. IIRC prior to the Indo and Ethi prangs there were 4 instances of MCAS in the States and no one nose-dived into nothin’. Treated as a stab runaway.

Sources (for Admin only):
- 5000h PIC B737-200/400 (mainly -400).
- Differences course -800 (Boeing Training Facility BNE 2003).
- talking with 737 destructors - Training Facility HKG (2019/20).
Isn't that a bit racist Slasher? I was thinking similar lines that those fatal MCAS deployments happened in those countries while other airlines used them in more difficult weather like US operators or in a very intense schedule like the blue and yellow operator in Europe. Obviously I have no data to investigate that but it was one of those idea not easily announced.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#233 Post by Slasher » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:14 am

RiS -

- Americans aren’t a race. There was nothing ‘racey’ about my post. I didn’t specify skin colour mate.

- Llondel lives in California. If he takes a 737 MAX it’ll probably be within continental America piloted by fellow Americans. I was directly answering him with my assurances.

:)

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#234 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:16 am

I think, Slasher, the NTSB disagree with you. Source NTSB. Find the reports?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#235 Post by Slasher » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:21 am

I’m aware of what the NTSB thinks Boac and am not unaware that Boeing should’ve damn well said something about MCAS in its FCOM.

Reread post 231 mate.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#236 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:22 am

Boac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:16 am
I think, Slasher, the NTSB disagree with you. Source NTSB. Find the reports?
BOAC, for us SLF, can you summarise for us?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#237 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:11 am

Slasher wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:14 am
RiS -

- Americans aren’t a race. There was nothing ‘racey’ about my post. I didn’t specify skin colour mate.

- Llondel lives in California. If he takes a 737 MAX it’ll probably be within continental America piloted by fellow Americans. I was directly answering him with my assurances.

:)
Whatever the case it should be noted that:

1) In the case of the Lion Air crash the crew, on the flight previous to the one in the accident aircraft had managed the MCAS issue and landed, shaken, somewhat stirred but alive.

2) That American or UK or European pilots, whatever their race, are not uniformly good at whatever level they fly. The laws of statistics mean that the MCAS issue would have bitten and killed a US crew and passengers as well sooner or later.

3) Not all African or Asian pilots are badly trained. There are some very good African pilots.

4) Aircraft accidents kill people of whatever nationality, race or whatever and that the pain of their families and loved ones is the same from wherever they come.

6) The MCAS issue is a Boeing design and management ethos scandal and that making national or racial points (or whatever else) with reference to pilots' skills completely misses the root cause of these disasters.
or Asian pilots are badly trained
And certainly not those trained by Captain Slasher one hopes.
A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand kin you can play jacks. Girls do that with a soft ball and do tricks with it.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#238 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:19 am

PN wrote:BOAC, for us SLF, can you summarise for us?
- not clear what you are asking? Summarise what?

Slasher - post 231 is not actually relevant to this topic. Stab Trim runaway/MCAS has been discussed/argued/droned on about with the conclusion that, as you agree, Boeing screwed up. There Is NO repeat NO evidence in any proper reporting system that anyone (except you) has found of evidence of MCAS malfunction anywhere else. If you can find it and reproduce it here, you will do us all a favour. Otherwise it qualifies as 'Fake News'.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#239 Post by OFSO » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:26 am

But is it not a fact that Boeing generally are guilty of poor quality control ? And can we be sure that the impression we have of Airbus being better is founded on fact ?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#240 Post by Slasher » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:33 am

Boac can I ask if you are using this (or similar) as a reference?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarc ... he-us/amp/

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Yes
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Gob I was replying specifically to ‘del who lives in America and most likely will be flying in American-registered MAXs with American pilots in the cockpit. I didn’t mention anything about Africans, Strayans, Asians, Arabs nor Trini’s dad and Tobaccos for that matter as it didn’t apply. And as I inferred to him before neither the airlines nor the FAA will let the MAX loose in US airspace unless the drivers have had the sh!t trained out of ‘em.

Why is it whenever some bugger says something positive about some geographically-bound bunch of aviators someone will invariably read it as ‘racist’. I’d expect that nonsense from K&C and Admin but not my experienced fellow pilots who can read a post and comprehend what was written.

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