Pakistan Airbus Down

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TheGreenGoblin
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Pakistan Airbus Down

#1 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri May 22, 2020 10:45 am

Pakistan plane crash: Airbus jet comes down near Karachi airport.

Pakistan International Airlines flight PK303 was a domestic service from Lahore in the east of the country.

Not good.
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#2 Post by Boac » Fri May 22, 2020 1:21 pm

According to AvHerald the aircraft had nose-gear extension issues and was on a second approach when it crashed following the "loss of both engines"??!! There are, amazingly, reports of survivors from the aircraft despite it crashing into a built-up area.

EDIT: Twitter reports that the aircraft landed 'wheels up' on its first attempt from which it went round with engine damage....curiouser and curiouser.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#3 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri May 22, 2020 1:55 pm

Boac wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:21 pm

EDIT: Twitter reports that the aircraft landed 'wheels up' on its first attempt from which it went round with engine damage....curiouser and curiouser.
That would do it, drag it off the runway.

And from TOP
Where is the METAR when it might be actually relevant?
And shortly after it was posted.

The Snail has a report that this was his 4th landing attempt. No mention of wheels at all.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#4 Post by Ex-Ascot » Fri May 22, 2020 2:26 pm

Saw that PN. Four attempt to land with double engine failure. Must be one hell of a glider.
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#5 Post by AtomKraft » Fri May 22, 2020 4:19 pm

Looks like first landing was on the engine pods.
Followed, amazingly, by a take off!
Grazing the pods wiped out the generators, thus evidence of the RAT being deployed during the last approach...and visible smoke from engines.
During second approach, both donkeys packed in.

Heaven knows why the first landing went so wrong.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#6 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri May 22, 2020 4:29 pm

AtomKraft wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:19 pm


Heaven knows why the first landing went so wrong.
A wheels up, late call, but not too late? Not the first time that a jet has tried to drag the runway airborne.

If there had been a system failure I would have expected a prepared wheels up procedure.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#7 Post by AtomKraft » Fri May 22, 2020 6:08 pm

Probably landed wheels up by mistake. Everybody's less current than they ought to be.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#8 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri May 22, 2020 6:57 pm

Yes, that is probably the most obvious suggestion. Naturally TOP has solved it though aliens isn't one of them.

Digging through the old grey matter I think it was an F4, as the sink continued below the expected height the pilot realised his error and selected full reheat thus trying to drag the runway with him. I think he got airborne. I don't recall what happened next.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#9 Post by Boac » Fri May 22, 2020 7:14 pm

I THINK Stn Cdr Cranwell took some inches off the lower aerials on one of the Nav Squadron Varsities.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#10 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri May 22, 2020 7:21 pm

Boac wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:14 pm
I THINK Stn Cdr Cranwell took some inches off the lower aerials on one of the Nav Squadron Varsities.
Obviously the GPWS had been stowed before landing

The Varsity, designed as a bomber crew trainer, think Lincoln's not V Bombers, had a trailing HF aerial that the signaller had to wind in before landing. The noise gave ample warning before landing if it had been forgotten.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#11 Post by Boac » Fri May 22, 2020 7:26 pm

Signaller!? Signaller?! Don't have none of those at CRARNWELL, Sah!

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#12 Post by AtomKraft » Fri May 22, 2020 7:45 pm

Add another hundred or so to the non-covid, Corona death toll.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#13 Post by G-CPTN » Fri May 22, 2020 8:26 pm

AtomKraft wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:45 pm
Add another hundred or so to the non-covid, Corona death toll.
As well as the spectators crammed together watching the smoke from the crash - perfect breeding ground for the virus.

https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-conten ... 398349.jpg

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#14 Post by ian16th » Fri May 22, 2020 8:40 pm

Boac wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:26 pm
Signaller!? Signaller?! Don't have none of those at CRARNWELL, Sah!
Yes they did, Signallers, Wop's and WopAg's! In the days before AEO's.
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#15 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat May 23, 2020 5:08 am

It would have been a pretty egregious mistake to have missed an ECAM warning ref. the gear and the pre-landing check list should have caught any such mistake before the warning stage anyway.

Apparently the A320 has had instances of sensor failures leading to false/spurious warnings ref. gear down and locking (but not a spurious positive down locked Green from both computers) so one can only imagine that either both crew members failed extend the gear, failed to run the checks and then failed to note the ECAM red warning and aural tone or chose to ignore a warning in the belief that the warning they were receiving was spurious...

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/app/them ... wnlock.pdf
In the event of a genuine landing gear
strut detected as not downlocked by
both LGCIU1 and LGCIU2 sensors,
the “L/G GEAR NOT DOWNLOCKED”
ECAM warning will be triggered, along
with associated warnings:
> Continuous Repetitive Chime audio
warning, and MASTER WARN light
> UNLK red light on the LDG GEAR
CTL panel
> On the ECAM WHEEL SD page,
both red lights are displayed on the
affected landing gear strut
> RED ARROW on the LDG CTL lever
panel
> ECAM memo
“LDG LDG GEAR DN” (blue).
pia_a320_ap-bld_karachi_200522_2.jpg
The aircraft seen after the go around, RAT deployed, scrape marks on both engines (Photos: Pakistan Plane Spotters/Hamza Omer)

http://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#16 Post by AtomKraft » Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 am

They seemed to be very high on their first approach. 3500' at 5 miles, so I'm sure the gear crossed their mind.

Maybe what happened is they got unstable due to being so high and landed long, or floated too far, or whatever.

This might lead to a baulked landing, which is a much rarer event than a G/A, and desperately easy to make a cock of- ask Emirates.

Perhaps the gear got retracted too early during the 'baulked landing' and the thing settled onto the runway?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#17 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat May 23, 2020 6:29 am

AtomKraft wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 am
They seemed to be very high on their first approach. 3500' at 5 miles, so I'm sure the gear crossed their mind.

Maybe what happened is they got unstable due to being so high and landed long, or floated too far, or whatever.

This might lead to a baulked landing, which is a much rarer event than a G/A, and desperately easy to make a cock of- ask Emirates.

Perhaps the gear got retracted too early during the 'baulked landing' and the thing settled onto the runway?
Possible in that the squat switch/sensors may have allowed the retraction if they were open due to a bounce and gear up was selected and then the whole kit and caboodle settled again thereafter as you suggest.
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#18 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sat May 23, 2020 7:21 am

Tonight's NZ TV news suggests bird strike(s) for the engines out landing and showed the text of the crew declaring a Mayday ( no reason ) and ATC advising both runways available.

The Monday morning quarterbacks are out in force.

Sad, I await the truth ?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#19 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat May 23, 2020 7:24 am

ExSp33db1rd wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:21 am
Tonight's NZ TV news suggests bird strike(s) for the engines out landing and showed the text of the crew declaring a Mayday ( no reason ) and ATC advising both runways available.

The Monday morning quarterbacks are out in force.

Sad, I await the truth ?
A large bird is notable in the photo above...
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#20 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat May 23, 2020 7:29 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:24 am
ExSp33db1rd wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:21 am
Tonight's NZ TV news suggests bird strike(s) for the engines out landing and showed the text of the crew declaring a Mayday ( no reason ) and ATC advising both runways available.

The Monday morning quarterbacks are out in force.

Sad, I await the truth ?
A large bird is notable in the photo above...
However so are the scrape marks which implies something severely untoward occurred on their first approach...

It would have been a very bad day at the office indeed to have had a baulked landing, engine scrapes and then bird strikes that lost them both engines on the second!

So possible bird strike on short final on first approach resulting in confusion, baulked landing, engine scrapes, followed by loss of both engines (RAT extension etc.) due initial bird strike(s) followed by crash due to bird strike(s) and/or engine damage to due ground scrape? The mind boggles...
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